The Habits Behind a Healthy Relationship

Interview By Brandi Fleck

Brandi Fleck and Ryan Sauls explore the habits, conversations, and shared values that helped them build trust, navigate conflict, and create a healthy relationship.

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Every relationship has an origin story. It begins with a conversation, then another, then another.

Somewhere along the way, friendship becomes trust, trust becomes love, and two people slowly build a life together. But what are the moments that make that happen?

Brandi Fleck and Ryan Sauls share the story of their relationship, from coworkers and friends to partners building a blended family. As their story unfolds, they reflect on communication, compatibility, conflict, and the everyday habits that have helped their relationship grow.

What you'll find isn't a guide to the perfect relationship. It's a glimpse into two people learning to love each other well, and a reminder that understanding another person's story often helps us better understand our own.

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Listen to Brandi and Ryan’s Interview

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Table of Contents

The Foundation of a Strong Relationship

Brandi Fleck: To me, being human means being open to, creating, and caring for relationships with other people. 

Whether you're the kind to have lots of connections with lots of people or just a deep connection with a few people, we're here to make each other feel safer, loved, and cared for. Maintaining those connections, I think, is the most important part of what it means to be human.

Welcome back to another soul-exposing exploration of what it means to be human. You're listening to Episode 33.

Last week, we talked to James Hui, a professional nerd and podcaster who opened up about his happy polyamorous relationship.

This week's episode is truly personal. Ryan Sauls and I open up about our happy monogamous relationship. Listeners, including but not limited to guests from Episodes 12 and 26, submitted relationship questions on Facebook, and we spend the next 45 minutes or so answering them all.

I'm Brandi Fleck, your host. If you follow the show on social media, you also probably know who Ryan is, but today I'm extremely honored to have the pleasure of introducing you, by voice, to Ryan.

We've been together for over a year, have blended our families, and enjoyed navigating the world together and with our children.

By day, Ryan is a software engineering manager. In his spare time, he is an extremely talented musician. In fact, he wrote the music for the intro and outro of this podcast. He is the voice of the intro and helps edit and mix episodes with me behind the scenes.

We believe that sharing our experiences helps others, and we enjoy when others share their experiences with us as well. Our humanity manifests itself in so many different ways, and relationships are one area that are fun to explore. So stay tuned to hear us open up about what works for us, what doesn't, and how we work through it.

From Friendship to Romantic Love

All right, Ryan. Our first question is from listener Jason O'Donnell, and this is actually a multi-part question. He says:

"I'd love to hear your origin story. How you met, fell in love, and grew your relationship. Where your compatibilities are, but also where you have found you were incompatible and worked through those issues to build an even better and deeper connection."

So that's a lot of parts. Let's address these questions one at a time. Let's start with our origin story.

Ryan Sauls: "Origin story" makes it sound like we're superheroes.

I had been working at the company that we both now work at for about a year and had made friends with a woman who is a mutual friend of ours.

One day she started telling me about how she was going to bring a friend of hers to work with us in our office.

It's a software office, so of course if there's a woman coming around, everyone is at least interested. There aren't very many women.

Brandi Fleck: There are not very many women in software, even still.

Ryan Sauls: Right. Shannon introduced us the same way she introduced everybody else at the office. "Hi, this is Ryan. This is Brandi."

As unromantic as it sounds, that's actually the way that we met, so there's no way around that.

I could tell right away that Brandi was pretty and obviously very capable at work. She was very intelligent and always sort of in command.

Things kind of stayed that way for a few years. I was married. Brandi was married when she started working there. Over time, both of those relationships sort of ended. Kind of fast forward several years.

Brandi Fleck: Four years.

Ryan Sauls: We worked together before.

Brandi Fleck: Here we are.

Ryan Sauls: Here we are.

Brandi Fleck: This is really funny. Just so you guys know, I have never heard Ryan answer these questions before, so I'm hearing this for the first time, as are you. He's probably going to hear some of what I have to say for the first time. Some of it I have told him. 

But I have a different origin story. That is how we met at work, but actually the first time that I remember meeting Ryan was at Shannon's wedding before I started working at the office.

Ryan Sauls: That was before you started working. That's right.

Brandi Fleck: Yep. That's a funny story. She had a very intimate wedding with only maybe 30 or 40 people. Her closest family and friends, and the people who could come. It was at one of her really good friend's houses.

She was very concerned about her guests being comfortable and being hospitable to them, so she tried to get somebody to shuttle people from the house to a hotel where a lot of people were staying from out of town.

Ryan volunteered to do that job.

Me and my late ex-husband—we were married at the time—were there at the wedding, and we rode over to the hotel in the last shuttle with Shannon and Adam right after they were married.

I said hi to Ryan, and we were laughing and cutting up in the back. He drove us over, we said bye, and that was it.

I had totally forgotten about that, and then I didn't see him again until my first day at work. It was exactly like he said. How we started dating now…

Ryan Sauls: Yeah, that's a whole different story.

Brandi Fleck: So fast forward about four years. There was some time in between my marriage and when Ryan and I went on our first date. I had a different boyfriend in between for a little while, and we had broken up.

I was going about my business, starting the podcast. Ryan and I were friends. We had hung out over the years, and I had asked him to help with music for the podcast, so we had been talking a little bit about that.

I always went to his gigs. He plays with Shannon in a band called Carter Creek South, if you guys want to go check it out.

Ryan Sauls: Shameless plug.

Brandi Fleck: Yep. I'd always gone to their gigs, so it made sense that I would ask him to do some of the guitar.

Then one day I was just like, "You know what? I want to go out on a date." 

So I messaged him on Facebook. It took probably like two hours to craft and send this little message that just said, "Hey, do you want to go out for drinks?"

Then I panicked and waited.

Ryan Sauls: Well, you didn't need to wait.

Brandi Fleck: Well, I waited for you to respond.

Ryan Sauls: You waited for me to respond.

It's funny. I actually got that Facebook message while Shannon and I were over at our mutual friend's house for a graduation party for their son.

We had been hanging out and playing music and stuff. I got that message and was obviously kind of excited and a little bit surprised right out of the gate.

In fact, I don't think a woman had ever actually asked me out before, so there was that. Very exciting, to say the least.

Brandi Fleck: Long story short, he said yes, and we went out for drinks over Memorial Day weekend.

The Slow Work of Falling in Love

Ryan Sauls: It just so happened we both have kids, and our kids were with their other parents at the time.

We went to a brewery, and then we went out to eat after that. We pretty much spent the whole day together.

Brandi Fleck: Pretty much.

Ryan Sauls: Yeah, it was really fun. We talked a lot, and it was definitely one of those things where we were out on a date, but we had already built a relationship of understanding and friendship before that. It made a lot of the things that might otherwise have been uncomfortable or intimidating about a first date a whole lot easier for me to manage. I don't know if it was like that for you.

Brandi Fleck: I think so. Oh, yeah, for sure.

I don't know. You seemed like you were nervous, though.

Ryan Sauls: I didn't say I wasn't. I was definitely still a little nervous, but you should see me on a regular first date anyway.

Brandi Fleck: Okay, so that covers our origin story and how we met.

The next one is: How did we fall in love?

Ryan Sauls: We mentioned that I was married and had been divorced. I came into our relationship, I think it's fair to say, with some insecurities. Things were probably slower than they might have been because of some of that.

After that first date, we went out again and again and again. We did other things, had a lot of fun, spent a lot of time hanging out and talking.

Brandi Fleck: We had a date where we made homemade sushi, you guys, and it was so cool.

Ryan Sauls: It was fun. That was a lot of fun.

We were spending lots of time together, and even if we weren't actually together, we were swapping messages on the phone or staying in touch basically all the time.

One day it occurred to me that I wasn't concerned anymore about the things that had been making me insecure before. It didn't matter anymore.

Coming out of a divorced relationship, I definitely had an idea in my mind that I wanted to be really careful not to define what I was looking for in a partner in terms of negating the qualities of my other relationship.

I wanted to be positive and choose to find someone who met. Everyone's got sort of a list of things. Sometimes they're hard to express, but I wanted someone who was something, not somebody who wasn't something, if that makes sense.

Over time, I found myself worrying less about the things about me that I thought would maybe make me not as suited for our relationship. I wasn't worrying anymore about avoiding a relationship like I was in before.

I was really able to start realizing that Brandi had all of those qualities that made her exactly what I was looking for.

With time, and spending all this time together, we were having so much fun all the time.

Brandi Fleck: We still have fun all the time, by the way.

Ryan Sauls: Yeah.

It's hard to know sometimes exactly the moment that you think you're in love with somebody, but I just woke up one day and realized that I was.

It's almost like I looked around, and everything had kind of clicked into place in all these different parts of my life at the same time.

It just sort of happened.

I realized, "Wow, I haven't been this happy in a long time, and I'm going to do whatever it takes to keep this together for as long as I can."

Brandi Fleck: I asked Ryan out on our first date, but he definitely told me that he loved me first.

I had fallen in love with him too, and I was okay with taking things slow. It was just sort of an organic evolution of the relationship.

A lot of what Ryan said about things just falling into place and spending a lot of time together and having fun was all part of it.

I think, because we had a friendship before, even though we didn't hang out all the time or talk all the time like we were doing when we started dating, there was already sort of a foundation of love there. It wasn't romantic love, but I was very fond of Ryan anyway.

Getting to know him even more in the ways that we were getting to know each other just sort of cemented how good of a person he is to me. It cemented all of the things I already thought I knew, plus I learned so much more, and it was all very positive.

Yeah, it was just a natural progression.

When he told me he loved me, again, this theme of freaking out and panicking, I was like, "What do I say?"

I was totally speechless because I didn't expect him to say it then, and it totally blew me away. I was like, "Well, I'm speechless. I love you too."

But that wasn't the moment. That was just the moment of expression.

Building Trust and Emotional Safety

The next part of this multi-part question is how we grew our relationship.

We've been together for a little over a year now, and in this time we've done a lot, to say the least.

I'll take this one first. I think growing our relationship was also just a natural, organic evolution. As we went on, as we just did the things that we naturally wanted to do together, we grew closer and closer.

We already had a foundation of trust from our friendship, but that trust got even stronger. Getting to know each other better just created more and more good feelings.

There were no bad feelings. Of course, when you're in a new relationship, in the beginning there are nerves. You wonder if you're making the right choices, if you're doing the right things. Sometimes we have insecurities as people. I know I do.

Those sort of went away, like Ryan was talking about earlier. I think we continue to grow by talking and doing things together that we like to do.

If conflict does arise, and still to this day if conflict arises, it's not explosive. It's not hard to deal with. I mean, conflict is really hard. It's hard for me. I hate it. I don't know a lot of people who like it.

But in those situations, I found that I was able to grow closer to Ryan because he's very calm and very patient. He seeks to understand where I'm coming from, and that makes me feel comfortable talking about what we've got going on and the issue at hand.

I think that in those moments I was able to feel closer to Ryan. Also, when we have intellectual conversations and get to know each other on a philosophical or intellectual level, that helps me feel closer to Ryan.

I think we just have a lot of those moments where we have opportunities to get closer, and that's how I think our relationship has grown.

Because of those things, we were comfortable taking our relationship to the next level. Now we live together, we've blended our families, and I feel like things are just going really smoothly and great.

Ryan Sauls: Yeah.

Now that I think about it a little bit, when you talk about how we grew our relationship, I think the "how" is just spending time, a lot of time, and focused time.

We definitely do not have the mindset of the default activity being sitting down and watching TV. Our default activity is to sit down and talk to each other.

Brandi Fleck: That's true.

Ryan Sauls: We still do watch TV and movies on occasion. That's what our family kind of likes to do together.

Brandi and I normally focus on spending time together and actually talking and being present instead of passively watching something or letting something else happen.

Brandi Fleck: Yeah, I'm really big on quality time. That's what helps me feel loved, and we get a lot of it, I think, even though we're super busy all the time.

Ryan Sauls: It's true.

Why Compatibility Is More Than Shared Interests

Brandi Fleck: All right. The next part of this question is:

"Where are your compatibilities, but also where have you found you were incompatible and worked through those issues to build an even better and deeper connection?"

Let's start with compatibilities, and then incompatibilities and working through those issues.

Ryan Sauls: We touched on that a little bit.

I mentioned trying to be active about choosing a partner or someone to spend time with, so I had at least some idea of what I thought would mean compatibility to me.

Someone who was thoughtful and expressive, and really someone who was generally positive, was super important to me. Maybe it sounds simplistic, but you just sort of know when you're around people if they have a positive outlook.

Definitely the fact that we're both comfortable just being together and hanging out, not having to have that sort of third party, whether it's a TV or somebody else. We can hang out together and enjoy each other's company.

Brandi Fleck: I think we enjoy each other's company because we have a lot of compatibilities.

Not only do we like to do a lot of the same things, but we see life in a similar way. I think we both really like people.

We like games. We like music. We like food. We love to cook together.

We just do a lot of things together, and I think, even like Ryan said, being comfortable in that togetherness is part of why we're compatible because that's what I like in a relationship.

I like doing things with my partner. I like actively being together, and Ryan definitely is okay with that.

I've had partners that needed more space and more alone time. Both of us need space and alone time, but I think our threshold for what we need is similar, and that helps.

Ryan Sauls: Yeah, I think that's probably a good way to express it.

Other people have all sorts of expectations about having "me time," and even in the context of a relationship they still want to have these buffers and time to go off and pursue their own thing individually.

It's not that we don't have those things.

Brandi Fleck: Yeah, we have a lot of those things.

Ryan Sauls: But whatever balance of individual and together works for each of us works for us together.

Brandi Fleck: Yeah, that's a big one. I think so too.

Okay, now let's jump into the incompatibilities and how we've worked through those to build a better and deeper connection.

Learning Each Other's Communication Styles

Ryan Sauls: We talked about this question a little bit beforehand, and I think Brandi would agree that the word "incompatibility" is probably too strong because it implies conflict.

I don't think we're incompatible. That might be weird to say, but...

Brandi Fleck: Right.

Ryan Sauls: That's what I'm getting at. It's not incompatibility exactly, but there are some differences.

One of those, I think, is that we communicate differently, as you may have already picked up just listening to this interview.

I'm a little more of a rambler. I go around the edges of a conversation quite a bit more, and Brandi is very direct.

Brandi Fleck: I cut straight to the heart of it.

Ryan Sauls: There's a lot of implication there.

I talk around the subject. I think through the options by talking about them. In general, I'm just slower to communicate.

It takes some effort sometimes, especially in the context of a disagreement, not to interpret Brandi's directness as aggression or hostility.

It takes an extra little bit of effort to say, "Oh no, she's not saying it that way because she's mad at me. She's saying it that way because that's the way she says things."

It's just that, in this moment, maybe I don't exactly want to hear what you're saying so directly.

Going the other way, if we wake up in the morning and we're planning our day, I'll say five or six different things that we might possibly do. By the time I get into the second one, Brandi has already started planning them out because, since I said them, that must be exactly what I'm going to do.

That's the only way someone who is so direct could communicate.

Brandi Fleck: That's right. If I say it, I want to do it.

We're working on that.

Being able to understand where the other person is coming from really helps.

While there are differences, I think we both try to come from a place of understanding.

I know that I give Ryan the benefit of the doubt. If I perceive him as being indirect, I don't automatically think that there's some bad motivation or that it's passive-aggressive. It's him thinking.

With my history of abuse in my childhood and some of the traumatic things that have happened in my life, I've gone to that place of thinking, "Oh, this person might be out to get me," or, "This person doesn't have my best interests at heart," and that there's some kind of negative underlying motivation.

But that's mostly not true.

I've done a lot of work personally to rewrite that script and to know that I know, hands down, Ryan loves me, and there's no reason why he would want to hurt me. That's been proven time and time again.

It's not that people don't accidentally hurt each other, but there's no malice behind it.

It does take a little effort on my part to give the benefit of the doubt, but my baseline now is that if he says something that I don't necessarily understand or that I might have a knee-jerk reaction to, my reaction is no longer, "Oh, this is bad."

It's, "Hey, let's try to understand where he's coming from, give him the benefit of the doubt, and move forward."

Ryan Sauls: A lot of that has just come from talking about it. When we have a disagreement, we try to build on that trust and work our way through it to get through the immediate conflict.

Then, at some point later, we're probably going to circle back around and talk about the argument itself.

"I felt this way when I said this."

"Oh, well, I didn't know that's what you meant or how you felt."

Through those conversations, I came to understand the way my indirectness might sometimes be perceived as working an agenda. That had never occurred to me before.

But we talked about that. It came up separately, just talking about the issues around a relationship.

We talked about the directness in Brandi's style and the way I might misinterpret that. Being able to talk about the argument without having the argument again.

Brandi Fleck: Yeah.

Ryan Sauls: And actually having an opportunity to learn, just being comfortable enough with each other to have those conversations, has been how we've resolved, or are resolving, those things.

Brandi Fleck: I agree.

It's definitely been helpful. It's been a growing experience. It's been a learning experience, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Ryan Sauls: Me either.

Growing Together Across a 12-Year Age Gap

Brandi Fleck: One other thing that I should bring up is that we have quite an age gap. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?

Ryan Sauls: Sure.

Brandi Fleck: This isn't necessarily an incompatibility, but we have a 12-year age difference. Ryan's older than me.

I'm a millennial. I'm a Xennial. I was born early enough that I still had an analog childhood, so I feel really lucky in that regard.

As a teenager, I got my first cell phone. The internet became really big, and those things impact the way I live life and the way I see life.

Ryan is a Gen Xer, so every now and then our humor doesn't line up, and every now and then we look at social media differently and how we share things differently.

I think we've come to understand how the other approaches these types of things through the same resolution methods that Ryan just mentioned before. Those are areas that we definitely have to talk about, and that we do talk about.

Ryan Sauls: That's true.

Brandi Fleck: We're okay with the age difference. At least I am.

Ryan Sauls: Yeah. I mentioned the insecurities before, and that was actually the biggest one for me. How to get around that was definitely an issue that I had to navigate somehow.

Brandi Fleck: What do you mean, "get around it?"

Ryan Sauls: To let it put itself aside, I guess. To realize that it wasn't as big a deal as I had let it turn into, and it didn't need to be a barrier.

Brandi Fleck: All right. Well, Jason, thank you so much for all the questions that have taken us this far in the episode. Those were great questions, and it was really fun to talk about that stuff.

Now we're going to switch to Alyssa Fox.

The Qualities We Admire Most in Each Other

She said, "What do you admire most about each other, and what has the experience blending your families been like?"

Ryan Sauls: I would say what I admire most about Brandi is her openness, her positivity, and just her generally positive attitude and can-do ethic.

Bringing this whole podcast to life, telling all these stories, and making it all happen has been a huge effort of will and determination on her part.

When she decides that she wants to do something, she's going to work to make it happen. I find that characteristic really attractive.

She's really kind and really thoughtful about people all over. Her family and friends, for sure, but also she has a really big, open heart for people everywhere.

I just really, really admire that.

Brandi Fleck: Aw, that's so nice. Ryan. Okay, well, what do I admire most about Ryan?

This is a hard one for me because I can't just be like, "Everything." I admire everything about him.

My 5-year-old answers questions like that. We're like, "Hey, what was your favorite thing about this movie?"

And he's like, "Everything."

"No, be specific."

So now I have to be specific. Gosh. Ryan is also really open. When he says he's going to do something or that he believes something, he means it, and he does it.

He is really thoughtful, and I think he's very considerate of other people. I think that is so important. We're all in this world together. We're in this life together. We're all connected.

I just think his kindness is an example for our kids. The way he follows his passions, plays music, and does the things he loves to do is also a great example for our kids.

I'm somewhere between saying the thing I admire most is probably his thoughtfulness, but also that he's just a great dad.

I think the example that he sets for the kids is really phenomenal. I'm just so proud to have you in my life and the kids' lives.

Ryan Sauls: Thank you.

Brandi Fleck: Okay, and what has the experience blending our families been like?

Ryan Sauls: I would say it's been almost wholly positive.

We made the decision to live together, and Brandi and her son moved in with me. My three sons are here part-time, so there was definitely a transition for us all.

Brandi Fleck: Sure. My son and I went from being two to six, so we both had to adjust.

Ryan and his sons went from being four to six, so that was an adjustment. The youngest was no longer the youngest.

Ryan Sauls: Right.

Brandi Fleck: And the only was no longer the only.

Ryan Sauls: I have two that are teens, and now we have two that are elementary school-aged.

The two younger ones get along well together. I think my biological youngest certainly feels like he's now got a little brother, and I think he enjoys that role.

Having a playmate around is a big improvement for both of them.

Although one of the things our youngest has learned now is about video games and how much fun it can be to sit on the couch and play a game on the TV.

Brandi Fleck: Yeah, the older ones definitely took him under their wing for video games, for sure.

Ryan Sauls: Generally, the older two are definitely good with kids. They enjoy getting down on the floor, wrestling around, and playing as well.

It's an evolving situation all the time, just like it would be with any group of six people put together in one place.

So far, I think any of the negatives have been far outweighed by the expansion of how much time we get to spend together and how much love we're able to share because we're all here together.

Brandi Fleck: Mm-hmm. It's been pretty smooth with the kids.

My biological son now interacts with the other three, who I like to refer to as my bonus sons.

I feel like they have brotherly interactions, to sum it up.

Ryan Sauls: Yeah, for sure.

Brandi Fleck: When it comes to parenting, the transition was interesting because my biological son is now with us full-time.

As you know, his father passed away in October of 2018. I was actually doing an interview for Episode 7 of this podcast when I got the phone call. It was pretty crazy.

Ryan has more of a role in my son's life now than I necessarily have in the other kids' lives. I do have a role in the other kids' lives, and it's been interesting, but they're not here full-time.

The evolution of those relationships is slower than the evolution of, say, Ryan's relationship with my biological son.

I still feel like it's going smoothly. All the kids are really good-natured, and we just talk about things that we're interested in.

I think we find the things that we like, ask each other questions, and it's a natural evolution as well, just like it was with me and Ryan to begin with.

Ryan Sauls: Totally agree.

Brandi Fleck: The only other thing that we have to address is Trey Croft of Episode 26, I believe.

I'll definitely post that in the show notes. He said, "Resisting the urge to only post questions about his gorgeous beard."

So, Ryan, what do you do to have such a gorgeous beard? Because, y'all, Ryan is hot, by the way.

Ryan Sauls: Oh, boy. I don't know. It's a lot of maintenance. It's like having a little shrubbery you carry around with you all the time.

When you first decide you're going to grow a beard, the first two weeks you think you're doing it because you're being lazy and don't want to shave anymore.

Then you realize you don't want to look like an 1840s prospector, so you have to maintain it.

Brandi Fleck: You'd still be hot if you looked like an 1840s prospector. It's okay.

Ryan Sauls: Lots of trimming, lots of combing, and the beard oil has to smell good.

Brandi Fleck: Y'all, yeah. True. Make sure it smells good if you're going to use it.

Ryan Sauls: That's for sure.

Brandi Fleck: All right. Well, Ryan, thanks for coming on the podcast and for helping out.

Ryan Sauls: Well, sure. It's been a real pleasure to get to participate in all of it so far.

I really believe in what you're trying to do and the things you like to talk about. I think it's really important, and I'm glad to be involved.

Brandi Fleck: I love you.

Ryan Sauls: I love you too.

Brandi Fleck: You guys, oh my gosh, this episode was so fun. Isn't Ryan just so awesome?

Want to hear when Ryan proposed to Brandi? Check out humanamplified.com/blog/100-episodes-of-healing-through-storytelling.

Join the conversation!

Feel free to share your own experience and let me know if you have any questions in the comments.

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Hi, I’m the founder of Human Amplified. I’m Brandi Fleck, a recognized communications and interviewing expert, a writer, an artist, and a private practice, certified trauma-informed life coach and Reiki healer. No matter how you interact with me, I help you tell and change your story so you can feel more like yourself. So welcome!

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