The Truth About Plant-Based Living

Health & Wellness

Aug 12

Interview By Brandi Fleck

Neon “100% Vegan” sign hanging in a restaurant window, with diners visible inside and reflections of trees, buildings, and the cloudy sky on the glass.

Denise Brown shares how choosing a plant-based lifestyle transformed her health, values, career, and perspective on compassion.

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What if one everyday choice had the power to affect your health, the environment, and the lives of other living beings?

That realization didn't happen overnight for Denise Brown. She grew up eating meat, became a vegetarian in college, and years later transitioned to a fully plant-based lifestyle after questioning beliefs she had long accepted without thinking.

Denise shares the experiences that shaped her perspective, from growing up in an abusive home to leaving a successful corporate career in search of a life that better reflected her values.

She explores the differences between vegetarianism, veganism, and plant-based eating while tackling common nutrition myths and the social realities of living differently.

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Why Plant-Based Living Is About More Than Food

Brandi Fleck: Welcome back to another soul-exposing exploration of what it means to be human.

This week's guest is Denise Brown, a public speaker who spreads the word about plant-based diets, also known as veganism.

Now, I know that the food we eat seems to be a very personal choice, but what I want you and me to both think about today, to expand our worldview and consciousness, is that our diets are not personal choices. Our food choices have an impact on lives beyond our own individual selves in a huge way.

While I eat meat and junk food in addition to fruits, veggies, and grains, there's merit to making modifications because it's the right thing to do, even if we don't go completely vegetarian or vegan. Modifications are possible.

The right thing to do is not always easy, and it's not always comfortable. But what's so important about this episode is that Denise explains the impact of some of our diet choices. Once you know the impact, it's hard to ignore.

There is life outside of our own lives, and as humans, we care about that life, but we don't always act like it. We're not perfect, but we can start small and improve from there.

Denise is a great inspiration for our starting point, and here's why. She wasn't always a vegetarian. She details in this episode the evolution of her mindset that started her journey through vegetarianism that evolved into veganism.

She raises her teenage son with the same compassion that sparked her plant-based journey, and he is vegan as well. Throughout this episode, she mentions that he is 12, and he was at the time of recording, but has since turned 13.

So happy belated birthday. Denise and her son both excel at sports without eating meat. She's actively involved in the Nashville Roller Derby, and her son plays varsity basketball for his school.

Denise goes in depth about the difficulties she and her son have faced while following a plant-based diet, including social isolation, and also talks about the benefits to animals, our health, and our environment.

Denise also left the corporate world after 10 years to pursue a more compassionate lifestyle that is more fulfilling to her, something we all think about, and she tells us how she did it. That's a huge leap.

She works for the Music Kitty Cafe, where you can have a coffee or a sweet treat, relax, and pet some kitties that are up for adoption. If you love cats, she tells you how to go check it out.

Right now, we are in the middle of several weeks' worth of an Human Amplified exploration of the impact the arts, the humanities, food, and education have on our human condition and how interacting with those areas shapes our human lives.

We're thinking about what is our nature once mere survival is taken care of. Not only do we create, build, live, and try to find joy in our daily activities to elevate our existence, but we have the ability to choose what we do and consume.

I was watching an original Netflix documentary the other day about monogamy and polyamory because these are systems we put in place for ourselves in society, and we're going to have some really fun upcoming episodes on these topics.

One of the people in the documentary said that what's interesting about humans is that we can choose to live in a way that is not our nature. We can choose to do what is unnatural.

This is related to today's episode about our diets because I would argue that it's our nature to choose how we want to live, but what we choose becomes what is "natural" over time. What's natural to humans changes. We can change it.

For now, and without further ado, let's hear from the compassionate, brilliant, and beautiful Denise Brown.

Hi, Denise. Welcome to the show. I am so excited to have you here today because not only are you an expert on plant-based diets and how they can add to our health and the planet's health, but you're also in the Nashville Roller Derby, and you work at the Music Kitty Cafe. I just want to hear all about it. I think it's so interesting. So how are you doing today?

Denise Brown: I'm good. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited about this, so thank you.

Brandi Fleck: Great. Well, let's start with, what does being human mean to you?

Denise Brown: Oh gosh. I've been thinking about that for a while because it's a loaded question. But I think, for me, being human, if you want to boil it down, comes back to just being authentic and being your true self, which I know sounds kind of easy, but I think that in today's world it's actually very hard. We're constantly comparing ourselves to other people.

So for me, being human is being as real as I can be and being true to who I am. I feel that way because I think the more authentic people are, the happier they are and the better, more positive things they can do in the world.

Taking all the details away, if I had to define it, I would definitely say being authentic is what being human means to me.

Brandi Fleck: That's awesome. I like it. I do.

What is the most important thing to you, and how do you approach life?

Denise Brown: Oh gosh. That's another hard one. There are so many things that are important. It's life, and things are always changing. But again, if I had to define it, I would definitely say the most important thing to me is love.

I don't mean romantic love or anything like that. I say love because that applies to so many different things, like self-love, love for others, love for humanity, this world, your hobbies, all of that stuff.

Throughout my life, when I find myself in a difficult situation or if I have a decision, I always try to approach it in the most loving way possible, whether that means I need to put myself first or put myself in someone else's shoes.

That's how I typically try to approach most things in my life, especially if I have to make a difficult decision or something like that.

Brandi Fleck: Absolutely. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I agree very wholeheartedly. I try to do the same type of thing.

Growing Up with an Abusive Parent

That brings me to, and this is a big one, but can you just tell us your life story? I want people to really get to know you. What was life like growing up, and how did you become the person you are today?

Denise Brown: Okay. Well, yes, that is a very big question.

I think, like most people, I had a pretty difficult life growing up. I was born in California, but I moved all over the place, and not for any real valid reason. My parents just constantly moved around.

When I was young, they went through a very horrible divorce, so I kind of bounced back and forth between my mom and my dad. My dad was a pretty abusive guy, lots of anger issues and trauma from that.

We moved around a lot as a family. I even lived overseas at one point in the Middle East with my mom.

Brandi Fleck: Oh, cool.

Denise Brown: Yeah, which was a great life experience. It really put a lot of things into perspective for me. I got to meet a bunch of people from all over the world, so it was kind of a cool time in my life.

Then, I would say sophomore year of high school, I moved back with my dad and my brother, who's about five years younger than me.

It was a really hard time in my life, from sophomore year all the way until I graduated because, like I said, my dad was very abusive, and you never knew what would trigger him. We were constantly walking on eggshells.

I was an older sister, so I had to look out for my brother, which definitely defined who I am today. I'm very much a caregiver and want to take care of others, so that was kind of my high school experience.

When it came time to pick out a college, of course I wanted to get far away, so I moved to the farthest school I could in Florida, which was Florida State in Tallahassee.

I ended up having my son very young. He's 12 years old now. I did graduate college, thankfully, and had him shortly after that, but I kind of just fell into the typical rat race from there. I wanted to get the best job that I could to provide for him, and that kind of led me into the corporate world for a really long time, where I was with the same company for about 10 or 11 years. That was also in Florida.

Then, just recently, I kind of gave all that up and decided to move to Tennessee, where I'm at now in Nashville, so that I could live closer to my mom's side of the family, which has been a great support system that I have here.

We've been here now about two years and just living life. That's kind of a big summary, I know, but that kind of sums it up, I think, when it comes to my life.

Brandi Fleck: Okay. Well, I've definitely had some similar experiences with having to walk on eggshells, and I can sort of relate to what you're saying there.

How do you think that has informed your prioritization of love and approaching life in a loving way like you described?

Denise Brown: It's definitely shaped who I am as a parent and even as a partner because, even though my dad was abusive, I knew that he loved us. It was him not being able to manage his anger and not having good examples for himself.

With my family and my son, I try very hard, not to overdo it, but at least let him know that the love is always there, even if I'm angry or if I'm disappointed or whatever. We'll have that conversation, but then I explain to him, "I feel this way because I love you, and I want what's best for you."

I try very hard to, I wouldn't say overcompensate, but I do try to keep what I say in mind because I remember my past and how I was brought up and walking on eggshells. That's not fun for any kid or anyone.

I try really hard to make wherever I'm at a comfortable environment and a loving environment where we can be mad at each other, we can make mistakes, but at the end of the day we all still love each other. That's really how I approach a lot of different things, but especially in my own home.

Plant-Based Diet vs. Vegan Lifestyle

Brandi Fleck: As part of setting the example that you want to set, and I know that you're an expert on plant-based diets and you also choose that lifestyle for yourself, is that sort of an example that you set for your son? Is that part of that?

Denise Brown: Yeah. I know we're going to talk about it, but all of this stuff ties back into a plant-based diet because, however you want to call it, whether you want to call it a plant-based diet or a vegan lifestyle, it's really a lifestyle where you're committed to being compassionate and not harming others, which I think is the biggest reason for me why I've gone down this path.

Yeah, it's a huge factor in the way that I live and the way that I parent because it just makes the most sense to me. Even when it comes to our food, why cause harm if we don't have to?

Absolutely, it even comes out in my diet that I really want to live a life of compassion and not harming others, which goes back to a plant-based diet.

With my son, that's something that he's been raised with his whole life as a vegetarian, but I constantly am checking in with him, like, "How do you feel about this? Do you feel like you want to keep doing this?" Because I want him to make that decision one day on his own.

If he ever wanted to change his diet, I want him to know that he could do that and I wouldn't be mad at him. I want it to be his decision, whereas when I was growing up, everyone just ate meat because that's what everyone else knew, and no one ever really challenged it.

Knowing what I know, it just makes sense for me to raise my son in this compassionate life that we have. So far it's been working, and he's on board. He's never expressed any interest in wanting to change it, so I think we're all doing the right thing for us right now, at least.

Brandi Fleck: Awesome.

You touched on something that I'm sort of curious about. I know that when we've talked before this episode, we've called it a plant-based diet, but then you mentioned a vegan lifestyle.

I'm interested in the semantics. Why refer to it one way as opposed to the other, and what's behind that?

Denise Brown: I love that. I love that question because it's something I struggled with as well.

My main job is that I go and present to a lot of different audiences about the benefits of plant-based dieting as it pertains to our health, the environment, and animals. I talk about a lot of different things related to that.

One of the struggles I had was that the company I work for told us to emphasize plant-based diets because there are a lot of reasons why.

One of the biggest misconceptions is that a lot of people think vegans are healthy, and that's not always the case. There is a ton of vegan junk food that you can eat, like ice cream, Oreos, even certain Doritos.

Just because someone is vegan doesn't necessarily mean that they're healthy or that they're doing the best they can for their health.

A plant-based diet is more centered around not only excluding animal products but also eliminating processed food, which is very, very common. More whole plant foods are what a plant-based diet is.

Whereas veganism is more about cutting out animal products but still eating junk food and things like that.

Veganism is more of a lifestyle because it not only pertains to food but also not buying clothing that might have animal products or buying products at the store that are cruelty-free.

It's a lot more than just a diet, and that's really the key difference between the two.

I try to identify with both. I'm actually trying to shift more. I'm trying to clean up my diet as well because, even though I would identify as a vegan, I'm trying to eat healthier and more plant-based foods so I can have better health for myself.

Brandi Fleck: Well, that's all very interesting to me. I never knew the difference, so thank you for explaining that.

How Denise Brown Became Vegetarian and Then Vegan

You had mentioned that you just grew up eating meat. How was a plant-based diet introduced to you?

Denise Brown: You know, it's weird for me, and I don't know how most kids are, but I know that when I was younger, I loved animals. I used to want to be a vet. I would volunteer at animal shelters and at vet clinics. I knew that I wanted to do something with animals.

I used to volunteer at a vet clinic, and I got to watch a dog get spayed. I nearly threw up everywhere. I was like, "I cannot be a vet or do anything with blood."

But I still always really loved animals.

When I was about middle school age, I started to question why I loved my cat, but we would eat a chicken or eat a cow. I started questioning that when I was in elementary school or middle school. It was always a question in the back of my head.

I made several attempts to go vegetarian on my own, just eating everything else but the meat part of whatever my mom or my family made. I didn't have a job. I was a middle schooler, so it didn't stick very well or for very long.

It was always something that I questioned on my own. No one ever really taught me that or talked to me about it. It just made sense to me.

It wasn't until I actually went to college that I made the decision that I was not going to eat any more meat, and that's when I became a full vegetarian.

Back then, it wasn't very hard. Being a vegetarian was very easy for me because I was barely eating meat anyway, so it was really just cutting out the things that I really liked. That was a decision I didn't fully make until college, though.

Brandi Fleck: Okay. Before that, it just kind of made sense to you.

You said it was sort of easy, but when you cut out the things that you liked, were there emotions that came up? Were there physical changes that occurred?

Denise Brown: I definitely noticed a change when I switched to a completely vegan or plant-based diet. I definitely noticed a big change then, physically as well as emotionally. It was a deeper connection when I made that transition.

Brandi Fleck: When was that transition?

Denise Brown: That was actually only a couple years ago. I'm approaching about two years.

One of the biggest regrets I have is not doing it sooner, honestly, which I think is where the emotions come in. But yeah, it's only been a couple years.

Brandi Fleck: Okay. What were those changes that you just mentioned? You said a deeper connection, but could you expand a little bit on that?

Denise Brown: Definitely.

When I decided to completely cut out any animal products, I mean, when I was a vegetarian, I used to make fun of vegans.

I remember I used to work with a guy who was vegan, and he had these PETA signs around his desk. I would be like, "I'm never going to be like that guy. He's so judgmental. He thinks he's better than all of us," kind of that stereotypical vegan.

Looking back, I feel awful. I can't believe that I ever judged somebody for not wanting to hurt animals.

I think the biggest difference for me has been the emotional one because I look back, and I used to make excuses like, "Oh, I'm vegetarian. I'm not hurting anyone. I'm not killing any animals. The animals are still alive."

Now that I know what I know now, I look back and I feel so ignorant. I feel embarrassed. I feel almost ashamed of having those thoughts.

Now it's like I feel it's all around me. Everywhere you go, you see commercials for animal-based products or billboards advertising all sorts of meat items, and I just see it everywhere.

It's almost overwhelming how sad it is that we, or the majority of Americans at least, get a big portion of their diet from killing other animals.

To know that I was a part of that, or not helping as much as I could, when I first transitioned I was really, really sad for a long time.

My partner can vouch for that. I would get really depressed and cry sometimes because I couldn't believe how ignorant I was. You want to share this information with everybody, but people are so set on their diets. It's really hard.

It was a big emotional struggle. Now I feel like I'm lucky to have a job where I can advocate for this lifestyle, so that kind of gives me an outlet. But when I first transitioned, I didn't have that outlet, and it was really hard emotionally, for sure.

Brandi Fleck: Gotcha. Well, I think it's really brave of you to say those things and share those things, and really sort of introspective, too. That's awesome.

Benefits of a Plant-Based Diet for Health

Now I would love to pivot into some of the benefits. What are all of the benefits of a plant-based diet?

Denise Brown: Oh my gosh. I could go on and on and on about the benefits of plant-based dieting.

It can impact anything you can think of, from our health to the environment, and also animal welfare.

There's a lot that people don't realize. Their food is causing a lot of health-related diseases, plus impacting the environment in more ways than a lot of us know.

I could go on and on about it, but the top diseases that we have in our country go back to the foods that a lot of Americans eat.

If you think about it, most of the foods that make up the standard American diet are high in saturated fat and high in cholesterol. Those two things alone clog up our arteries, which causes a ton of different problems like heart disease, strokes, and even Alzheimer's disease.

Health-wise, there are a lot of reasons to switch to a plant-based diet.

Environmentally, animal agriculture is by far the biggest contributor to some of the most serious threats that we're facing, like climate change, ocean pollution, and a whole slew of different problems come from the modern farming that we have.

I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions that a lot of people have. When they think about farming, they still picture big open fields and big red barns, and that's simply not the case anymore.

We have these huge farms that have popped up that will easily have up to a million animals on site.

Brandi Fleck: Oh my goodness.

Denise Brown: Yeah. When you have that many animals on site, think about how much waste piles up, all the water needed, all the natural resources needed.

Not to mention, on top of all of this, most of the grain that we grow on our planet goes to feeding livestock, which is very, very inefficient when you think about how many people on our planet are facing hunger and starvation.

I really wish more people would look into this and research this because just by changing up your diet, we can address a whole ton of different issues, from our health to the environment, as well as animal welfare.

A lot of people are also starting to realize how these animals are treated on these farms, where they're often in really horrible conditions. They're confined and often born with a lot of deformities, and they have very short lifespans.

When you take all of that into consideration, the biggest answer that we have just goes back to diet, which I think a lot of people don't realize.

I think that's kind of powerful in a way. You can control a lot of things just by the food that you eat.

Brandi Fleck: Yeah.

Denise Brown: I know that's kind of a long answer, but there's just so much that goes into it that a lot of people don't realize.

It's something I didn't realize either until very recently because I was a vegetarian because I love animals, and I kind of made that connection.

It wasn't until the past couple of years that I also realized how much animal agriculture is damaging our environment, and that's also really scary.

Brandi Fleck: Yeah. That's a lot to think about.

Denise Brown: It is a lot, and I can go on and on about it.

There's so much information out there where people can look it up and read these facts, but people have to want to look that information up and really take it in.

Brandi Fleck: Change can be a little difficult. One of the big things that I want to focus on in life is starting to change the systems that no longer serve us.

And it seems like this is one of those areas where, like you said, if people just took the time to look into it and realize what was happening, we could so easily change something by just setting our minds to it.

Denise Brown: Oh, yeah. Just because something's been a certain way for so long doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

Brandi Fleck: Right.

Denise Brown: Absolutely. Even when I was a vegetarian, there weren't as many options as there are today. Now you can go to almost any restaurant or any grocery store, and there are tons and tons of plant-based options.

I always say that if you really like something that's animal-based, like ice cream, there are a ton of non-dairy ice creams out right now. You can go to any store and still get the food that you like. It just requires kind of retraining your brain in a way, or being aware of other things that are out there.

Just keep your eyes open. It's a lot easier today than it used to be, even just five years ago.

Brandi Fleck: Sure.

To go back a little bit on some of the things you said about how, just by changing our diet, we can sort of change problems that are going on with our planet, thinking in terms of healing our bodies through a plant-based diet, how does that relate to healing the planet? What are some concrete examples of how it's connected?

Denise Brown: When people are healthier and more aware of what they're putting into their body, they also start to care more about the world around them, if that makes sense.

That's what happened for me. Even when I was a vegetarian and still eating ice cream and eggs, I was very much concerned about me. I was like, "I need to eat this. I love that. Ice cream is my happy food."

It wasn't until I decided to cut that stuff out and started researching more that I realized, "Oh my gosh, we have all these problems on our planet. What can I do about that?"

Being more aware of the foods that I was putting into my body, I started to become more concerned about our planet and the environment as well.

Even if you didn't care about that stuff, if you just cut back on your animal product intake, you would still be helping out our planet because there are so many statistics and so many facts that show or prove that animal agriculture is really the single biggest contributor to a ton of environmental problems, especially climate change, which is a really, really big hot topic right now.

A lot of people don't realize that animal agriculture is contributing more greenhouse gases than any other industry out there.

If we want a future on our planet, even a change in climate by two degrees can have a ton of huge effects. If we don't want that stuff to happen, we have to start thinking about the food that we're eating.

I think when we start thinking about those things, not only will our health improve overall, but we can also feel better knowing that we are helping the environment and helping our planet so it doesn't have to keep going in this horrible direction that we're going.

It's starting to get scary. Scientists and experts are starting to give us very real timelines, and it's within our lifetime.

Just knowing all of that, by shifting our diet, it helps so many things. It's really unquantifiable how much it can help.

Brandi Fleck: There are so many complex things that go into it.

I want to get into a little bit of the social impact of going against what's mainstream right now.

Social Challenges of Being Vegan

You mentioned that your son has been a vegetarian for his whole life and that he has recently gone plant-based. How do you help him maintain that lifestyle in our society, which is largely the opposite?

Denise Brown: Him being a vegetarian was so much easier than it is for him to be plant-based because there are a lot of things he does.

Inside our home, no problem. But when he's out with friends or family, he plays basketball at his middle school, so they have a ton of team events.

There are a lot of social things that he does where people have no idea what a plant-based diet is. It's just normal for them to have pizza, hamburgers, hot dogs, and tons of food that my son can't eat.

I would say that we do our best here at home to make sure that if he has a big event or a basketball game, we go out of our way to make sure that he has something he can eat.

Even if he's not bonding with the team in that moment, he'll just say. My son is very shy, so he doesn't like a lot of attention on himself. We've worked on different things he can say, like, "Oh, that upsets my stomach," or, "I don't want to eat that before a game."

He has things that he can say that don't come across as being rude or announce to everyone that he's a vegan.

Really just giving him those tools, and then also making sure he has plenty of food he can eat, has been some of the challenges we're still working through.

It's not always easy. Sometimes he eats junk food when he's out because that's all there is.

It's still something that he wants to stick with. I hesitate with him because he's only 12, and I want him to one day be confident enough to say, "This is who I am, and I choose to do this."

At the point he's at right now, it's very hard. Kids want to fit in. He doesn't want to stand out. He wants to be part of the crowd.

It's been a bit of a struggle with that, but I think just checking in with him, talking about it, and working through different situations so he knows what to say if it ever happens has been a big game changer for sure.

Brandi Fleck: Great. A lot of great takeaways there for our listeners, and we'll list all those out in the show notes for sure.

I want to ask, too, it sounds like it could be lonely. Do you find that it's lonely for him? Do you get lonely in this lifestyle?

Denise Brown: I would say that I definitely do experience loneliness because of this lifestyle.

With my son, I don't really get that impression. He has a lot of friends. He's been doing basketball, so he has those connections and friends in the neighborhood. He's still very active, and he has his friends all over the place. He plays video games and all that, so he has a pretty active social life.

If I had to guess, I would say that he doesn't experience that loneliness. I think with him it's more not wanting to appear different when he's with his friends.

Whereas with me, I'm very vocal about it. I'm like, "This is me. I'm plant-based. I'm vegan."

It does cause me to sometimes feel very isolated because most of our planet are not vegans. A lot of people, I think, and I try very hard not to come across as judgmental or condescending or anything. But I think a lot of people, just knowing that I'm vegan, are scared to eat around me or scared to say something.

It's come up a few times in different conversations where people will tell me they're scared to order what they normally order if we're out to eat.

Brandi Fleck: Yeah.

Denise Brown: I always tell them, "Please do whatever you want."

It can be a challenge in social settings.

Not only that, if I'm being a little selfish here, it is hard being a vegan sometimes, especially because you care about animals.

I think that's one of the biggest concerns or issues that I have when it comes to connecting with other people.

Everybody loves animals, right? Everybody loves animals. Everybody will typically have a cat at home or a dog at home or have had a pet at some point in their life.

When you ask people if they love animals, they'll say, "Of course I do. Who doesn't love animals?"

But then you see them eating a burger, and as a vegan, I'm like, "Why can't these people make that connection?"

That's where I isolate myself.

Brandi Fleck: This is one of those areas where, like you said, if people just took the time to look into it and realize what was happening, we could so easily change something by just setting our minds to it.

Denise Brown: Oh, yeah. Just because something has been a certain way for so long doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

Absolutely. Even when I was a vegetarian, there weren't as many options as there are today. Now you can go to almost any restaurant or grocery store, and there are tons and tons of plant-based options.

I always say that if you really like something that's animal-based, like ice cream, there are a ton of non-dairy ice creams out right now. You can just go to any store and still get the food that you like. It just requires kind of retraining your brain in a way, or being aware of other things that are out there.

Just keep your eyes open. It's a lot easier now than it used to be, even just five years ago.

Brandi Fleck: Sure.

Denise Brown: When people are healthier and more aware of what they're putting into their body, they also start to care more about the world around them, if that makes sense.

It wasn't until I decided to cut that stuff out and started researching more things that I realized, "Oh my gosh. We have all these problems on our planet, and what can I do about that?"