Matt Anderson, Nashville-based political strategist, elected official, and communications consultant.

This is a transcript of the conversation between myself, Brandi Fleck, Host of the Human Amplified podcast, and Matt Anderson, a Tennessee political insider who can shed insight into the atmosphere at the Capitol and Democratic party.

If you’d rather listen than read, you can do that here, on Apple Podc asts, Spotify, or anywhere else you get your podcasts.

What does being human mean to you?

Brandi Fleck:

What does being human mean to you?

Matt Anderson:

I have a very Bill Murray answer, which is other people. I feel like I feel like the acts that we do for other people whether it's parenting or, you know love to your partner or you know acts of service in the community whatever it may be that those are the things that can really define us beyond and that distinguish us as humans apart from, animals so maybe that's a literal way to think of it too.

Brandi Fleck:

Beautiful thank you.

Everyone, I would love to welcome to the show today Matt Anderson. He is a communications consultant, owner of Fortify Communications, a political consulting firm in Nashville, Tennessee. Matt works with progressive nonprofits and Democratic candidates.

So I am super excited to have you here today. Welcome to the show.

Matt Anderson:

Thank you. So happy to be here.

Brandi Fleck:

Yeah. And just just for everyone to know, like Matt and I, we know each other from college and it's been about 20 years since we've caught up. So this is going to be a really interesting conversation.

Insider Status

Brandi Fleck:

[3:19] What what else do you want listeners to know about who you are and what you do?

Matt Anderson:

Yeah so i joke that i'm a political hack and send a lot of junk mail um but basically what i do as a political consultant is i work with democratic candidates and help them build their campaigns um and help them with their message and strategy. If you you know James Carville is maybe a famous example which is like not someone I would like want to favorably compare myself to in any way, but he's sort of a famous example on the democratic side that people might know. But that sort of work.

And then I work with OutMemphis and Planned Parenthood of Tennessee as a press and communications consultant. So, you know, their their media relations work and a lot of stuff like that I help with. So.

Brandi Fleck:

Awesome. Yeah. And what a time to be affiliated with the Democratic Party.

Matt Anderson:

[4:21] Yeah. Yeah, I guess another thing I should mention for listeners—I was elected last year to the state executive committee, which is a little known body. But there's one on the Democratic side and the Republican side in Tennessee that are sort of like the board of directors for the parties. And so you actually run in a primary election to get that seat. You elect a man and woman from every state Senate district. So I was elected to that just last year. And so it's interesting coming in right at the end of the last election. Things are not where you would want them to be on the Democratic side. Right. It's sort of like imagine like walking into an empty office.

Brandi Fleck:

Right.

Matt Anderson:

[5:07] You know, the last administration chairperson just left and, you know, they left the party in good shape. Not financially, but in a lot of ways, we're starting from scratch. Nobody knows what to do now. Really, there's lots of theories, and I'd love to dig into those. But, you know, everyone is starting from scratch and building from nothing right now, it feels like, because we're in a crisis moment.

I'm not sure people like me say that enough in ways that are breaking through. And I think that's starting to change out of necessity. I'm digressing here.

Brandi Fleck:

And that's part of the reason why I was so excited to have you on the show is sort of, you know, the shift in your career to politics. And so I'm gonna give a little context for this episode and why you're on the show, and then see what you think.

Matt Anderson:

I will say, no, I looked at your guests and wanted to listen to a few and I thought, is she sure she wants to have me on?

Brandi Fleck:

Absolutely.

Matt Anderson:

You know you have so you have like these great thoughtful spiritual people uh on the show here and you know.

[6:19] There are some connections to that in some surprising ways and things I've seen that I'd love to get into.

Brandi Fleck:

Absolutely.

Matt Anderson:

Yeah, no, but I would love to hear more about what I can offer here on being human from a political perspective, which people don't, I don't think, think of as a human sphere, right? It's so tainted and people are so cynical now. Really.

Brandi Fleck:

Yeah, that's a great point. And so basically.

[6:46] You know, I mentioned earlier that we knew each other in college, but you guys, Matt and I, we were on the newspaper together at MTSU somewhere around 2004, 2005. Matt was editor in chief and I joined as the features editor.

And that year of the paper, I would describe it as pretty revolutionary. We ruffled feathers and we started talking about things that made people really uncomfortable we started doing things differently than they'd ever been done before and I feel like that coincided with a larger societal shift of changing journalism norms like the internet was just growing into its adolescence social media was brand new. I mean Like Facebook had just come on the scene. It was a really transitory time. And I think you handled it really well, to be honest.

Matt Anderson:

And thank you.

Brandi Fleck:

[7:45] Yeah, absolutely. Like you were able to and it was hard on you, but you were able to hold your own. You were able to keep forging ahead despite like all of this pressure to go back to the way things were. And I feel like we made changes that you believed in and that the other people on the paper believed in and so it feels like—and you can correct me if I'm wrong—but it feels like these themes have sort of run through your career over the years as you've shifted from journalism to politics and that's why I invited you on the show today. because we find ourselves in a higher stakes transitory time with the current U.S. Administration. The future of not only the Democratic Party is hanging in the balance, but so is our democracy.

[8:36] So what are your thoughts on this?

Matt Anderson:

Yeah, no, it's I think I've made a lifestyle out of being mad at the people in charge, which I think is what you touched on there. But no, it was honestly a little therapeutic to hear you talk about that time in that way, because I remember it as an utter disaster.

Brandi Fleck:

That surprises me.

Matt Anderson:

But that's like me being hurt on myself, which is my tendency, you know, but, you know, for every time we fell flat on our face, we were doing cool things that people, I think, liked and enjoyed, you know, and so there's a lot. If we had those volumes here to look at, we would probably be like, oh, my God, what did I write? What was I thinking? And that kind of stuff.

Brandi Fleck:

[9:25] I've got them all packed away in my garage. Oh, yeah.

Matt Anderson:

So, no, I mean, I think we were we were doing a lot and trying a lot, but I wanted that paper to be exciting for students. We were taught in journalism school to like, what is it? Afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted. Or I got that backwards. Comfort the afflicted, afflict the comfortable. And we, you know, did that to the best of our ability, I think. You know, I remember like a sex issue that landed me on the news having to defend, which was a fun experience. I remember the paper really rallying to the defense of a psych teacher who was getting fired and like students really cared about him, Dennis Kramer. And, you know, for for every screw up or misspelled headline or stupid decision, like I'm proud that we were on the right side of those things.

Democracy is Being Dismantled

Brandi Fleck:

Absolutely. Yeah. Great. Well, what do you think about our democracy right now? Is it being dismantled?

Matt Anderson:

[10:29] 100%. You know, and I think they've been planning it out in the open for some time, you know, tend to believe that Russia is a major influence in our information ecosystem right now and has been for a while. I think you see it now. If you're on Facebook, you see tons and tons of posts that will lead you to believe that these country artists are attacking Beyonce. And you'll, You know, me being like an information ecologist, right? I want to know where this is coming from and who did it, blah, blah, blah. And you like, so here's a post. It's like flashy incendiary, you know, Chris Stapleton, blah, blah, Beyonce.

[11:11] And customarily, they would leave the link out and it would be like in the first comment. Well, you find that and then you go to that link and it'll have like a little bit of text that doesn't say what the headline says. And then there's just advertisements for more trash on the website and no backing it. But anyway, I think this is probably familiar to your listeners, but, you know, this trash is just always out there and it comes from a place. And we know the Russians are experts at dividing us. You know, these KGB tactics go back way back. And Vladimir Putin is a KGB man. He has advisors that have really dark beliefs about whether democracy is where we should be as a society. And the tech right, I think, has started to find those things compelling, where we hear talk about like a CEO monarch. And at CPAC, we've seen that, you know, there was like a third term conference where they're talking about repealing 26th. Is that the right one? I don't know the amendment that.

[12:16] Bans presidents from running having more than two terms but, that's neither here nor there, but no I mean I went way down the conspiracy hole there but like these things are real like I read about this stuff every day it's in major newspapers and I think people are just so outside of reading the news right and don't know where to start and there's so much out there, You know, even if you do read sort of the local news, you start to get a picture or if you were to turn on CNN, you might get some of a picture. But and I don't want to say they're withholding things from you. Right. Or they don't want you to know it's not a conspiracy. But at some point, you just have to read The New York Times to cover the Wall Street Journal or whatever it is. And that's a full time job. And people don't do that. Right. Like, I'm a person that works in news and communications.

[13:11] So I'm online all day and digest a lot of news. So anyway, that was quite a defense of my answer to your question. But, you know, there's a New York Times columnist, a real life, Jamel Bowie, who I would highly recommend reading, who digests a lot of what's going on with Trumpism. But he's talked about this, how if you just say what's going on in a mixed crowd, you sound like a raving lunatic. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll take a breath.

Knowing What's Credible

Brandi Fleck:

Well, and I hadn't planned to ask you this, but since the topic came up of newspapers and digesting the news, how do you even know what is credible anymore?

Matt Anderson:

I usually think about it this way, and this is what I would suggest to people.

[13:58] Don't look for a 100% flawless, perfect news source. It's not out there, right? This is like a dark example, but I think about it all the time. The famine in Ukraine that happened in the 1930s, which was a byproduct of USSR policy, no one really knew it was happening at the time, right? So this massive, deadly, millions of people dying of starvation, and no one really knew it was happening, right? So even in the first draft of history, you might not know what's happening before your eyes.

But if you can follow the New York Times or the Tennessean or a place where people do what you and I understand, Brandi, from Sidelines days, is objective fact gathering, you're going to be in good shape.

You Might Also Like: Who Keeps Government Honest with Veteran Nashville Journalist, Pat Embry

And I think we've stopped doing that because our social media habits, we expect to find news there, but MetaX, just for various reasons, they've de-emphasized local news in their feeds. And there's so much junk to compete that we just don't see it. So you really have to seek this stuff out.

So, you know, if you think about it, when is the last time, and I'm not asking you, but anyone should think rhetorically, like, when's the last time I just went to a newspaper's website and, like, read some stuff for, like, 10 minutes, you know? And if the answer is not in a long time or I can't think of a newspaper…

[15:24] Like, I don't want to guilt you or make you feel badly, but, you know, it's like time to catch up here. You know, there's there's a big world out there.

And the unfortunately, the weirdos who advise Vladimir Putin have downstream effects in our lives and are starting to. Yeah. That are very real and scary. Yeah.

How Citizens United Changed Everything

Brandi Fleck:

[15:46] Okay. Well, and back to your point on where some of these things are actually becoming compelling to the people on the right. I've heard people say this two party system isn't working. And I mean, even some Democrats say the two party system's not working and that our systems are broken. Lots of them need overhauls. So I've got a two part question for you around that.

First, is it okay if democracy goes away?

Matt Anderson:

[16:15] I think that's an easy no. Okay.

Brandi Fleck:

What are your reasons?

Matt Anderson:

Yeah, no, look, I'll make, I'll try to like give some good succinct reasons. Anywhere you, I'm really resisting my long answer because it's, it's contra what the right says, but anywhere you see liberal democracies, like we were conditioned not to like big powerful states, governments, but anywhere you see like a big bureaucracy, a big democracy, see lots of participation, you don't see atrocities, right? There's freedom. These things go together. That's good for my family. That's good for our community. Like, we understand that, right? That's why I almost resisted your question. It's just so obvious to me. And I understand people are frustrated with the system or don't participate, and it seems like it's for other people, and it is. There's a lot of corruption, and there's a lot of ways that the Democratic Party doesn't meet that. But at the end of the day, you know, it's what we have. And when you look at a place or an example where there's not democracy, there's a lot of violence. There's a lot of harm.

Brandi Fleck:

Thank you for sharing that. I think that's really important. And not enough people are saying that.

[17:31] So things are being dismantled. I feel like they're being dismantled through force. People aren't getting a say. Power-driven agendas seem to be what's behind it. And I feel like you sort of maybe agree with that since you've been talking about, you know, Putin and all of those things. But those things concern me. Even if our systems do need an overhaul and we need to fix some things, it’s concerning. Do you agree with that?

Matt Anderson:

That the system needs an overhaul?

Brandi Fleck:

That it needs an overhaul and the way it's starting to be overhauled is bad. Y

Matt Anderson:

Yeah. Doge is a disaster. Where I want to go, I would say that a big part of our backsliding, civic backsliding and erosion of democracy is Citizens United, right? That the Supreme Court decision from, it's been more than a decade. I want to say it was 2011, but that's what added almost unlimited money to politics.

[18:35] And so there was already tons and tons of money in politics and influence, right? It's been a problem for a long time, but that's what really made it so that ExxonMobil can pour as much as they want anonymously into these dark money groups, right.

[18:52] And so that influence is what has corroded things. And that's what's begun to touch the Supreme Court is that amount of power and influence.

Brandi Fleck:

Gotcha. OK.

Matt Anderson:

When you read about those scandals. So. Well, so the overhaul, the way things are being done is sort of power driven. Right. It absolutely is. I mean, these people are crypto bros. So when they talk about wanting to audit Fort Knox, you know, like, let's not kid ourselves, right?

This is theft in progress. Elon Musk runs a, what is it, car company, rocket company, like all this crap. He's regulated by the government. Who do we think he's auditing, right? I mean, it is literal theft.

I've been saying this in meetings with people I work with in the Democratic Party where we're trying to think through, you know, what's our message? What's our message going to be? Which is such a, I don't know, that's a loaded question to me because I talk about it so much. But the message right now, I think, from a certain perspective on Doge and this government conspiracy, I mean, efficiency stuff, they're criminals.

Most [elected] Republicans right now are criminals, [20:07] sex predators of some kind, or engaged in defending criminals and sex predators. And like, I'm not exaggerating. I'm just, I would love to give you footnotes for the show after this, you know?

And I mean, there is some like funny exaggeration here on my part, right? But I, we could go back to, I'll give just a little anecdote from Tennessee that I've seen in my years of political work and activism, we had a state rep in Tennessee named David Bird. Have you heard of this guy?

[20:46] And this is just a little example, but we keep seeing these examples and it's just sort of like Matt Gates, right? Like we had a state rep from Wayne County who had been a basketball coach and he was on tape apologizing for assaulting these girls.

And the Republicans, the Republicans in Tennessee in the legislature had an almost gleeful defense of him. Right. I mean, they didn't they would give really mild statements. Right. But I saw the smirks on their faces because I was there. Right. I mean, they enjoyed antagonizing and defending him. Right. They made him a subcommittee chair. Right. And this has been the behavior of this party for a long time.

Yeah. I think this is part of I think how close I've been to it really drives a lot of my activism and commitment to this work. When you see them up close and how frequently they operate and see the patterns, it really you see just how corroded and corrupt our local democracy has become.

Yeah. And I you know, I do tell people people will ask me, friends of mine. What should I do? I want to get involved. And the thing I've started saying is just go to the state legislature and just sit in the audience and watch committees. Just do that for a day.

[22:13] And it will change you to see how this place operates.

Brandi Fleck:

That's a really good point.

Matt Anderson:

And the questions that come before them and the way they're dealt with and handled and to see the looks on their faces and the knowing looks.

[22:33] And, you know, you start to learn more about the place and you will find things to do from there, right? I don't have to give you a list, a checklist of things to do. It stirs your soul in a way that gets you involved. But I've seen that. And those numbers have been growing. So that keeps me in it, right?

I mean, if you were to ask me, why do you not throw up at your hands and give up? And some people do. It takes a toll on you.

But continuing to see the numbers grow and wanting to stay around, that's something that drives me.

Raising the Signal of Hope in TN

Brandi Fleck:

Yeah, good. Well, and I'm really glad that you mentioned your how your proximity to it helps you see the patterns because so many people are removed from that. So I love your suggestion to just go sit in on one of the meetings. But like there's footage of people who just are holding signs who are literally pulled out by police officers. You know, and I think it made national news last year when Justin Jones and, you know, the Tennessee three Johnson were silenced. Gosh. So what's it been like watching things like that happen?

Matt Anderson:

I mean, I'll go back a little bit.

[23:48] I've been around and watching those committee meetings since 2012 at this point, right? So a little bit about my career. I was in journalism for a while, as you know, and kind of worked my way up to being a reporter at the Tennessee Inn and then got the opportunity to be press secretary for the Senate Democrats, when that job came open. So that was kind of my leave break from journalism. But so that started in 2012. And so I'm like 12 years in now, just following the legislature. That's all to say I've seen those rooms be empty. Right. I've seen bad, nasty, horrible legislation passed or just things like common sense. Right. Like equal pay will die.

[24:33] You know two to seven or whatever the number is right and it's just an empty room and it feels like no one cares to.

[24:41] And that's an important change I don't think people realize is that since Covenant, those rooms are packed now, right? Okay. That was what you wanted me to know, right? But I wanted you to get us to this hopeful place of like, it's been anemic for so long that what you're seeing is actually a good sign that people are paying attention and that they're feeling the consequences of your action. Good. Right? And this stuff does signal to the public something's wrong, right?

And they are dismissed by some as, you know, they're just making noise. There's no value in that. But I think that signal is valuable to run up to the public, right? Something here is not right. Yeah. And, you know, back to just coming and showing up, if you, when you're in these committee rooms and you see it happen, when you see someone get picked up and arrested, you can really see how stupid it is, right? If you're just catching a clip on the social media, the Tennessee Holler, I want to give them a shout out like the work Justin Kanew does has been huge for this state. But when you see those clips, you might, it's really easy to think, you know, oh, they probably got a little rowdy, disruptive, right? Right. There's usually some ridiculous series of events where the Republicans got nervous or mad or, you know, or someone laughed at them. Right. Just things that, you know.

[26:05] OK, were we a little rowdy or did someone say something at a turn? But like you can handle it. Right. And they my point here is they let this stuff escalate. Needlessly. And, you know, yes, they have a super majority, but they're also 100% ignoring people who they don't agree with. And these are not fringe views. I like to remind people, yes, Democrats are at rock bottom in Tennessee. One million Tennesseans voted Democratic last November, right?

[26:43] That's an amazing amount of people. Everyone deserves dignity and respect, right? But if one million people are saying something in a state, that should be afforded some dignity and respect in a healthy democracy, right?

So I do think some of that disruption, as you raised, is due to them in these cases where, you know, hey, we've heard from 20 kids today who begged us to do something about gun violence, you know, and well, here's some money for locks and, you know, we'll just hope that this lock does better the next time a shooter comes, right? Like that's not an acceptable answer. So, you know, I'm sorry someone disrupted your little meeting.

A lot of people are really scared at school.

Brandi Fleck:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and you raise a good point, too, that, well, first, let me say, like, that perspective is so good to hear. Like, that the fact that this is happening and we're seeing this happen is actually a signal. It's actually a good thing compared to how it used to be. So, I want folks to take that away from this interview if they don't take anything away from it.

The Most Important Things You Can Do

Brandi Fleck:

But also, you know, they are ignoring people who don't agree with them. What can people do to be heard or to make a difference when the leaders aren't listening?

Matt Anderson:

[28:09] Back to my pat answer, right? Literally just go and you'll figure it out. But no, I know you want a deeper answer too.

You can do, you know, number one, don't start anything. What I mean is no new groups is something a lot of activists say amongst ourselves.

[28:28] Activists, advocates, you know, I want to be inclusive, but you know what I mean. We'll say people in this work will say no new groups. And that's just because, not that every group around is perfect, but, you know, everyone's little bitty effort, like sometimes we just need to join and form up. And when you brought up the two-party system, and one thing I wanted to say, address on that just a little bit, Some people, I think, are progressive, but like not excited to be Democrats, right? Or they're leftists and they don't feel included in the party or whatever it may be. There's a lot of ways the Democratic Party disappoints people. I'll acknowledge that.

But in America, we have a two-party system that's like, you know, you could debate changing it all day long, but I think it's helpful to think about our two-party system as containing a more parliamentary system. So if you're one to say, you know, well, I'm this, I'm not a...

[29:26] Right now, the best thing we can do is contain everyone in a coalition, right?

I think in Tennessee, we want to think about that as everyone from Justin Jones to Bill Lee, which, you know, former Republican governor, Justin Jones, activist on the left. But, like, you could actually imagine a lot that those two might agree on in the current environment. Right. And that's the coalition.

And I would just urge people be involved in Democratic primaries. That is the time when you have a lot of agency to affect the party. We haven't talked about my actual involvement within the party organizations a lot because it's really intricate and boring. But if you want to do that and if you want to change the flavor of the Democratic Party or think it's disappointed you in some way, [30:20] please get involved there because you would be shocked how wide open county parties are.

We're currently reorganizing all 95 of them around the county just every two years per bylaws that happens. And it'll be 10 people in the room. And like, that's the Democratic Party. Right. So, you know, if, for example, you want a more humane position on Gaza represented in a Democratic Party, like that is a perfect time to go be one of those 10 people in the room. Right. And there's, you know, like I promise you, Hillary Clinton is not standing there with her arms crossed, like working against you.

People will just be glad you're there right so um that is that's kind of a current like thing happening right now you could get plugged into or even think ahead early next year, you know we're gonna have midterms we're gonna have democratic primaries starting in march right and so like look at who's running think about running that's a really good time to like be part of the democratic party which you know.

[31:23] Like it or not, the Democratic party is the anti-MAGA coalition right now, electorally.

Brandi Fleck:

Right, right. That's a good way to think about it. And just for our listeners' context, too, we are having this conversation at the end of February. So you're going to hear this episode in March, just so you know.

Priortizing Human Rights with the Impacted People

Brandi Fleck:

[31:43] And let me ask you, too—I guess I might be switching gears just a little bit—but you’re a consultant at OUTMemphis and Planned Parenthood.

[31:53] What do you know of the atmospheres in those organizations right now in the current political climate?

Matt Anderson:

You know, it's interesting. I talked to a USA Today reporter earlier this week, and he was asking some questions about the atmosphere in Tennessee on gender affirming care, but right, you know, kind of across the board. And the thing people forget is, you know, So we're feeling the brute impact of King Trump right now. But if you were someone in Tennessee who depended on gender affirming care or, you know, youth who relied on that, there was an apocalypse for you like in the last two years. Right. When these laws started coming down at the state level. And it's good to be mindful of that. So, you know, I think people are used to being beaten down.

[32:49] That's for sure. And, you know, I know in people, among people who do the work, there's a strong emphasis on self-care that I think would probably resonate with a lot of your listeners. And, you know, a good community bond.

And, you know, here in Middle Tennessee, we had candidates, mostly women, who stepped up to run sort of post-covenant and wanting to see change on gun laws and abortion, but ran in the counties surrounding Middle Tennessee. And they've, you know, they haven't missed a beat and haven't gone anywhere, right, in a way that's hopeful. I've kind of moved around here. But, you know, I think there is an atmosphere of self-care and people are taking care of each other. That's good and then you know I will say for queer youth there's a real question of you know can I live in Tennessee.

[33:44] There's no right or wrong answer you know I've encountered people who are getting ready to leave in a month or looking for property and you know that's a real thing and I hope people will step up and support mutual aid and community funds when those things come around we'll all know people in our networks where that'll come across the board and that's just, truly an important time to give people a few bucks if you can. Yeah, but the other, you know, to speak more directly to your question, I think there's a sense of queer resilience. At Memphis specifically, that's something we're trying to emphasize with people that queer people have been here for a long time and are not going anywhere and have survived a lot.

[34:34] And we'll survive whatever comes ahead. And, you know, I know queer people of privilege are trying to step up and support people through things like mutual aid that I mentioned. But, you know, and then, you know, on the repro side, I know that one thing people need to keep an eye on with the executive orders and Doge, which is, you know, just all a version of Project 2025. But the thing to watch is family planning money. A lot of that stuff could start to get withdrawn from states. Title 10, which supports...

[35:18] I'm so scared I've got the number wrong. But yeah, no, Title 10, family planning funds that go to low-income women. Some of that stuff could be at risk.

Brandi Fleck:

Gotcha.

[35:29] So. Okay. Well, so all good things to know, all good things to think about. I'm glad to hear that there's a sense of community and taking care of one another because that's really important. And so this leads me to human rights. They're being violated. They're being taken away. I mean, they weren't all freely given to begin with, I guess, not by our governments anyways. So what would you have to say to someone who believes that our human rights aren't being violated?

Matt Anderson:

[36:11] I wrestle with questions like that all the time. One hazard of my work is proximity to Republicans. And, you know, I have them in my family. Right. And, you know, and I actually hate to be so partisan. I wish we lived in a world where like that wasn't such a divide, but it's there and it's real. So, but, you know, the heart of the question where you have to wonder what is the nature of this person who doesn't think I have rights, right? And you have to interrogate, are they able to understand my rights? Are they able to understand what is happening in the world, right? I've been through a lot of therapy just for personal stuff. It's not that I feel vulnerable. It's just like, how do I talk about my mother to the public? But, you know, like everyone talks about their mom and therapy. Right. And one thing my therapist said one day, it's like, well, what are what are they capable of?

[37:09] Right. And and so if you're that's a compassionate way, I think, to answer that conversation. There's a political answer that's a lot more brass knuckled, which I'd be happy to get into, right? But on a human level, you have to start from a place of forgiveness and imagine what they know about the world. And are there things they don't know about you that you could share in a way that's non-threatening? One thing that I hear people say in my work a lot, and it's 100% true. You know if you don't know someone who's had an abortion they just it wasn't safe to tell you right or if you don't know a queer person it just wasn't safe to tell you you know and i think people don't know that about themselves it's it's not everybody's job to explain their humanity to everyone all the time but but you can give someone a gift uh if you can help them see a part of you that might, change their view of humanity and rights of other people.

Brandi Fleck:

Okay.

[38:18] So connecting on a human level and maybe putting yourself out there, if it's maybe safe to do so, I mean...

Matt Anderson:

That's right. No, it's 100%. There are times when it just isn't safe. Yeah. You know, this is coming up more and more where we think about who is it. There's so much talk of parent rights at the state level on the right. And a lot of this is how they're getting at trans issues and things that they're upset about with youth and sex and reproductive health. But we start to talk about more at a public policy level, like who is a safe dog, right? So, I mean, there, I just want to speak to that. There are situations where, no, you should absolutely not take the advice. I would give it. But if you have a, you know, if it's your brother and it's a safe conversation, right? You can really give someone a gift.

Brandi Fleck:

Okay.

[39:13] Yeah. And what about the best advice for staying the course as an advocate when things get hard? I know you said early that just being close to the situation keeps you going. What else?

How to Stay Motivated When Fighting a Losing Battle (for Now)

Matt Anderson:

Yeah. Yeah. No. Listen, and I've seen it kick people's asses just as much. But it can't, you know, it can certainly pull you in. But, you know, to sustain yourself, you do build good personal relationships with other people that I think are really rewarding and enriching.

[39:46] In activism, kind of a weird one, but I mean, just know you're going to fail, right? You're pushing a glacier, at least in Tennessee. I mean, if we want to think about how to defeat Trump and you give me a dry erase board in 15 minutes, we could figure that out, right? But to turn Tennessee around, not just red to blue, but like red to purple, to purple, to blue-ish, you know, like. That's so hard. You're pushing a glacier. So just know that you're going to fail and you're going to struggle. Right. That first campaign that you run, you're going to lose.

[40:26] You know, but you'll build relationships. You'll build infrastructure. You'll do it better next time. And, you know, that vote that you're pouring all this energy into, like, stopping the legislators from voting a certain way, you know what they're going to do, right? It's that journey, not the destination mentality. And I think you have to have some of that. But I would put a caveat on that, that I do totally believe this super majority in Tennessee will end. I think we want to see them as inevitable and think of them that way. And it only serves them, there's no such thing as a permanent majority, no such thing as a permanent president, right? Which we need to like talk about more and more right now. Even if he tries to be, right? Right. Like, but these things come to an end. And the more people participate, the quicker that will be.

Brandi Fleck:

Gotcha. Okay. So join the coalition.

Matt Anderson:

That's right.

Brandi Fleck:

Yeah. All right, Matt, is there anything that I haven't asked you that you think is important to share.

Matt Anderson:

No, I feel like I've been all over the place, but I hope this has been interesting to viewers.

Brandi Fleck:

[41:40] I feel like this has been really helpful and it's been way more hopeful than I imagined it would be. So thank you.

Matt Anderson:

Yeah, no, it would be so easy to beat yourself down. And I think that stops people from getting involved, right? If you just, I would, if I'm allowed one more digression, but there's a philosopher, historian, Timothy Snyder, who I read a lot. And people might be familiar with On Tyranny. It's the little pamphlet you see a lot like Don't Obey in Advance. That's Timothy Snyder. But he's done a lot of work on attention, which is something we're thinking more about now with the rise of social media being the dominant form of media and the attention economy.

Your attention has financial value to people. But in the attention economy, despots like Putin or Trump, these right-wing movements, they want and like for you to have your attention focused on social and consuming that junk media. And it actually makes you hopeless in really fascinating ways. But a lot of the questions they use are designed to keep you sort of on a string, right? Think about the wall.

[43:01] It's invulnerable to questions, right? Someone should build the wall. And it stops there. Anyway, so that's my long-form pitch. Get out there in person. Yeah. Well, let me throw in there too that if you're hopeless, that means you're less likely to go do something. So it is important to maintain hope. Yeah, if you're hopeless, they win.

Brandi Fleck:

Yeah. Fantastic. Matt, how can our listeners find you and your work?

Matt Anderson:

I am on, I use Blue Sky and Instagram the most for political stuff. M-Anderson, V-I-L-L-E, Mandersonville is the handle there. Fortify Communications, our website's under construction right now, but that'll all be linked up. If you just want to give me a follow, I'm usually commenting on the news there.

And yeah, no, thank you for this opportunity. This has been a lot of fun. I feel like we've gone to some fun places in the conversation and appreciate the time.

Brandi Fleck:

Yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show.