This is a transcript of the conversation between myself, Brandi Fleck, Host of the Human Amplified podcast and Len Assante, host of the indie podcast, The Loyal Opposition on making change in your local area.

In this inspiring conversation, educator and podcast host Len Assante shares how getting involved in your local community can lead to real, lasting change. From critical thinking and media literacy to grassroots organizing and civic engagement, Len offers practical steps for making a difference—starting right where you are. Together, we explore why building community, even across political lines, matters more than ever.

Keep scrolling to read the entire conversation. If you’d rather listen than read, you can do that here , on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you get your podcasts. Or, watch the YouTube video below.

Meet Len Assante: Educator, Podcaster, and Local Changemaker

Brandi:
What does being human mean to you?

Len:
Being human to me means being responsible. Being responsible to each other, being responsible to the environment and the planet we live on, being responsible for the other creatures that share this planet with us. We are sentient, and so that gives us a responsibility.

Brandi:
Today, we're talking to Len Assante. He's a longtime resident of Sumner County, Tennessee, active in local politics, nonprofits, and civic organizations, and a lifelong educator in communications. He enjoys helping students expand their skills and knowledge. He is a recipient of a Tennessee Press Association Award for Editorial Writing and the Communication Editor of the Year Award from the Tennessee Communication Association. He holds both bachelor's and master's degrees in communication and has been a private pilot for 42 years. He's the founder of TLO Media LLC. Through TLO Media LLC, Len has a radio show and podcast called The Loyal Opposition, and we're going to be getting into that a little bit today—and his mission behind it.

But why that's relevant to you is we're going to talk about how locally plugged in Len is, how that's led to success, and how you can start thinking about plugging in locally to be a changemaker in your own community.

Everybody's efforts matter to make the world a better place, especially in your own little corner of the world. And with that, Len, welcome to the show.

Len:
Thank you, Brandi. Thank you for having me.

Brandi:
Yeah, I'm really excited to have this conversation. And just for our listeners' and viewers’ sake, I want to tell them we met in the Nashville Podcast group on Facebook. I always love to meet other podcasters and see what they're doing and learn from them. And so I'm super excited to have you here today.

Len:
I'm excited to be here. Actually, I mean, I feel the same way. You do your show significantly differently than I do mine, and I’m interested to see how it goes.

Why Civic Responsibility Matters Now More than Ever

Brandi:
Awesome. Well, before we dive in, what else do you want listeners and viewers to know about who you are as a person?

Len:
Well, I think the bio kind of covered the basics. Really, when I mentioned in the very beginning of the show that humans are responsible, I think that's sort of the root of who I am. I feel a certain responsibility to give back to the community, to be a part of the community, to make the place a better place than it was before—or at least try to—and to be proactive in some way.

I think you see that kind of throughout the professional part of my life, at least, in terms of my job and in terms of the other things I do kind of outside my immediate social circle. But on the other hand, I mean, you know, I'm also a lazy person. So I'm always trying to find an easier way to do things.

Brandi:
Oh my gosh, me too.

Len:
Which is why I love looking at podcasting software. “Oh, I can cut five minutes out of editing? I can do this!”

Brandi:
hat's funny. Okay. Well, let me ask you—where do you feel like that sense of responsibility comes from?

Len:
Yeah, that's a good question. And I really have a hard time answering it. I don't really think it was from my parents. I mean, I don't think they were irresponsible people at all, but my parents weren't certainly civically or politically involved.

It came to me gradually, I think, when I was still in graduate school and I started getting active in organizations like the Graduate Student Association, which sort of became our union in graduate school. And, you know, I was an advocate for graduate students having a voice and being fairly compensated. That sort of spilled over into other forms of advocacy as I got older and as I moved around the country.

You know, I've lived in a bunch of different places. I've been to 48 states, and everything’s run differently in different places. So I kind of have, I think, an idea of what works and what doesn’t. I’m like, “Wow, I wish it could be better like this.” So I think it was more of a gradual thing. There wasn't a grand bolt of lightning or a dad coming to me saying, “You have to give back.”

Brandi:
Yeah. Okay. That is very interesting. And you mentioned grad school, but your whole career has been in academics. Is that correct?

Len:
Pretty much, yeah. I had summer jobs mowing lawns and stuff like that growing up as a kid. But as soon as I graduated from college, I went into graduate school and I got a teaching assistantship and scholarship to attend. That's when I first started teaching. That's when I fell in love with teaching, and I've been doing that ever since.

When did I start in grad school? 1990—no, 1987 or '88 is when I started in graduate school. Long time ago.

Brandi:
And are you the dean? You're the Dean of Humanities right now at Volunteer State?

Len:
No. I used to be the Assistant Dean of Humanities. In fact, the last time we saw each other in person, I was the Assistant Dean of Humanities. I turned my term out, and I chose not to renew it. So I just kind of went back into the classroom. I'm just a plain old Associate Professor of Communication.

Brandi:
Well, there you go. Okay. What made you make that choice?

Len:
Well, teaching's my first love, and I'm getting closer to retirement than I've ever been before. I guess that's how the math works. And I thought I would sort of end things the way I started them.

Brandi:
Full circle.

Len:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

The Power of Humanities in a STEM-Driven World

Brandi:
Okay. Why are the humanities—and I know we've mentioned communications a lot—but just humanities in general, important to changing the world?

Len:
Oh, I think they're critical to changing the world. You know, everyone kind of understands fairly easily how the STEM disciplines are important, right? We need to understand the world through science and math. But the humanities, I think, is really where you learn to think. And you learn to see the world through different sets of eyes. You learn to explore who you are through exposure to the arts and through culture and through speech and through theater and through film and through philosophy and through other languages and other cultures. That’s what the humanities give you.

Everyone thinks the STEM subjects are hard—and they are. They're hard, right? Harder than the humanities? I think they're different. Mathematics, for example, teaches you how to think in a very quantitative way—numbers, right? But the humanities teach you how to think in a human way, in an artistic way, in a creative way, in a critical way.

I always tell my students, the biggest skill you get out of college—hopefully—is your ability to think critically. And I think it takes an exposure to a wide range of academic disciplines, including the sciences and the humanities, in order to get a strong foundation in critical thinking skills.

What Is Critical Thinking? (And Why It's Essential in Today's Society)

Brandi:
What does it actually mean to think critically?

Len:
Another good question my students always ask. To think critically means to think deeper and to think outside the box.

Okay, for example, let's say the President of the United States does X, okay? And your first impression—your gut feeling—says X is bad. Thinking critically means doing the research to understand why the President did X. What are the advantages and disadvantages of doing X? How does X fit into A, B, C, D, E, and F? What does X mean to me personally? What does it mean to the town I live in, to the state I live in, to the nation I live in? What does it mean to other people?

That’s critical thinking. It’s a deeper understanding, not just in terms of knowledge of the subject, but in terms of how it affects people.

So, for example, let's say the president wants to change the tax rates in the country. And my tax rate would go down from 27% to 26%. At first glance, that sounds pretty good, right? I'd be paying less, which means I'd be making more, which means I'd have more money to spend and put into the economy. Sounds great, right? At first blush, hey—let's vote for that!

But thinking a little bit more critically is: Hmm, well, is it good for my neighbor who's making $20,000 a year less than me, because their social services are going to be cut as a result? Because the government won't have as much revenue to fund social services?

Will that impact the town I live in because the road that we want to have built—partially with federal grants—isn't going to happen because that grant is going to go away?

Is it bad that in that same bill, the people in the 1% are getting a bigger tax break than me, which creates a greater income inequality between the top and the bottom, which might have serious economic effects?

So it's a little bit deeper understanding of the issue. And it's a little bit broader understanding of the issue in that it affects more than just you—in a positive or negative way—but how it affects the world at large.

So to me, that's critical thinking.

And the thing about critical thinking is—it requires effort. It requires work. You have to think about it.

And that burns calories. And, like I said, I think of myself as a pretty lazy person. It's a whole lot easier just to say yes or no—“I agree” or “I disagree”—rather than sit down and really think about it and listen to all sides and come to your own conclusion. That requires a little effort and a little time. And that’s what makes critical thinking—and critical listening—difficult. You can't just sit back and close your eyes and say, "Come to me."

Brandi:
Yeah. Well, okay, so what advice would you have for a lazy person who maybe wants to think critically, but just isn't doing that?

How to Start Thinking Critically, Even If You're "Lazy"

Len:
Watch the other channel.

Brandi:
Okay.

Len:
Watch the other channel. If you are a Fox News enthusiast, watch MSNBC. If you watch MSNBC, listen to Fox News. If you read the New York Post or The Wall Street Journal, read The New York Times.

Len:
Get the other side of the issue. It doesn't take any more time than reading your other newspaper or watching your other news show. So you're not being less lazy, but you're getting a different perspective. You're getting a different perspective.

So the broad answer to the question is, the door to critical thinking is getting the broadest possible perspective—getting multiple perspectives. And that's where, you know, the work and the effort come in. But if you switch off which TV show you watch every other night, that's going to give you something, and that doesn't take any effort at all.

Brandi:
Gotcha. Okay. Well, critical thinking sounds really important to being a functioning member of society to help make society a better place, would you say?

Len:
Oh, I would certainly agree. Critical thinking, critical listening, media literacy—those are all sort of in the same big basket and absolutely are important. We have to be—our form of government is founded on the idea of citizen participation, right?

Media Literacy and the Role of the Free Press in Democracy

The reason why the First Amendment guarantees us the right to a free press is basically because the Founding Fathers thought it was important for the citizens to know what's going on so that they know who to vote for. The only way we had of doing that at the time—and really, the only way we have now—is through the media.

So the media must be protected. Because a citizenry that is uninformed is going to make bad decisions—or isn't going to make any decision at all. And that kind of goes against the whole philosophy behind the founding of our country. It's designed to work best when the citizens know what's going on and they make their voice heard.

You Might Also Like to Read: How Executive Power, Political Parties, and Legal Loopholes are Colliding

Brandi:
Gotcha. Well, with all that in mind, what would you say to someone who wants to make a difference, but they don't even know where to start?

Want to Make a Difference? Start with Small, Local Steps

Len:
Well, I could think of a couple of podcasts they should start listening to.

Brandi:
For sure.

Len:
That's a great question. I think a small step is enough to start. But the problem with a small step is it often leads to a bigger and a bigger and a bigger step. You know, day one, you're dipping your toe in the water, and day three, you're neck deep, right? And that's kind of what happened to me.

But it's pretty simple for someone who wants to get involved. First of all, you have to know what's going on, right? Say, in your local town—read the local paper, listen to the local radio, tune into the local Facebook group or the local... what's that social media site for neighborhoods called? I forget.

Brandi:
Oh, I don't know. But I bet our listeners know what I'm talking about.

Len:
Yeah, yeah. Listen. Open your eyes and ears first. Listen, find out, learn. And that will lead you to the path of where you want to go.

When I first started getting seriously involved, it was after the 2000 presidential election. And I was like, “This is wrong. This is bad. Something’s got to change. I’ve got to do something.” That led me down the path to finding my local Democratic Party outpost. That’s how I got involved with the Sumner County Democratic Party and Democratic politics at large.

For other people, it might be something totally different. It might be the Rotary Club. It might be that you're mad that your electric rates have gone up, and so you wonder: “How does the utility company make those decisions? How do I get on that board?”

It might be that you're wondering why all you have in your town is pawn shops and Mexican restaurants when you wish there was more variety. And you want to get involved in the business community somehow—so maybe you should find out what's going on at your local chamber of commerce.

So it's kind of matching your natural interest with what the community needs, and then finding a way to make those two things come together.

For me, I had a natural interest in politics—and we needed political change—so I got involved in politics. I think I have a little bit of an entrepreneurial spirit, and I got involved with the Chamber of Commerce. So it’s matching your interests with the needs of the community and finding an organization that makes that happen.

Brandi:
That's a really good point. And going back to your entrepreneurial spirit, let's talk a little bit about The Loyal Opposition before we get too much further in. What does it mean to be “loyally opposed,” and what are you opposed to?

Inside The Loyal Opposition Podcast: Purpose, Growth & Mission

Len:
Well, most people would say everything.

Brandi:
[Laughs]

Len:
But there are a few things I'm not opposed to.

The name The Loyal Opposition came from the idea that exists in some governments around the world—that the party out of power is called “the loyal opposition.” The idea is—especially true in parliamentary democracies like the United Kingdom—when the liberals are in power, the Tories are the loyal opposition, and vice versa.

And the idea is that even though you are opposed to the policies and ideas of the majority party, you are still loyal to—in Great Britain’s case—the king. In our case, the Constitution.

So when I decided to call the show The Loyal Opposition, I wanted to make it clear that, yeah, we don't agree with what's going on in our town and our county—but we are loyal to the ideals that our country and our state and our community were founded on.

These days in politics, it’s so diametrically opposed, right? Everyone hates everyone else on the other side. They call me a communist, and I call them fascists and whatnot, right? But the idea is really, we both agree on the foundational stuff—hopefully. How we go about getting there is where we disagree.

So the show being called The Loyal Opposition was designed with the idea that—yeah, we don't like these ideas—but we still love this country. We still love this state. We still love this county.

You get, “Well, if you don't like it here, leave.” Right? Well, I love it here. I just don't like what you're doing.

And so The Loyal Opposition—that was a very tactical decision, a strategic decision to call it that. Because yeah, we're opposed, but we still love Sumner County. We still love Tennessee. We still love the United States. We're not anti-those things.

Brandi:
Wow. That’s a really powerful name now that I’ve heard you talk about it like that. And I love that you mentioned that we are still loyal to the Constitution. I mean, because a lot of things are happening right now that don’t seem constitutional, but...

Len:
Exactly. Exactly.

Brandi:
Right?

Len:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

So this has always been a passion of mine, and that comes from teaching media. I mean, First Amendment issues are a big part of my mass media courses. And with the First Amendment kind of comes the rest—and the document they’re attached to. So it has been a passion of mine, an interest of mine.

When the station manager at the radio station—WGKR—approached me about doing a political show, it kind of fell into place. I’m like, “Ah, maybe here’s a way I can make a difference.”

Brandi:
Yeah. I was going to ask you a little bit about your mission. So, what you're doing with the show is activating a more informed voter base. But I’m also curious—how do you see podcasts making a difference?

*Leonard (Len) Assante with The Loyal Opposition podcast co-host, Michele Harbin.*

Local Podcasting as a Tool for Activism and Connection

Len:
Great question. My endeavor—The Loyal Opposition—started out as a radio show and still is a radio show. But obviously, we've added the podcast element almost from the very beginning.

The goal of The Loyal Opposition is to spread statewide—to have a Loyal Opposition outpost in every county in the state, or as many counties as we possibly can. In fact, I'm scheduled Monday to be the guest on the very first Loyal Opposition: Wilson County podcast.

Brandi:
It’s happening!

Len:
It is happening. And in July, I'm meeting with a group in Robertson County. In August, I’m meeting with a group in Cumberland County. So—it is happening.

Brandi:
That’s fantastic.

Len:
But not every county has a radio station. Not every county has a radio station that's willing to air a show like The Loyal Opposition. So how do you stay local on a budget? How do you reach people in your community on the cheap? Podcasting.

Podcasting is cost-effective. It's a very popular medium. I mean, you know this. We see the statistics all the time—how many millions of podcasts are out there and how many hundreds of millions of people subscribe to them. Podcasting is a fast-growing medium. And video podcasting is the up-and-coming big thing. YouTube is a big podcasting platform now, right?

So, as traditional media loses its impact and influence, podcasting is picking some of that up. I figured—between local radio and podcasting—you’re getting two very cost-effective ways of getting the message out. One that appeals to an older, more traditional audience, and one that appeals to a younger, more modern, technologically savvy audience.

So it works. It works. And as you and I very well know, virtually anyone can be a podcaster.

Brandi:
It’s true. It’s true. And with practice, you can get pretty good at it, right? I mean, I bet you're a lot better than you were episode one.

Len:
Oh, absolutely.

Brandi:
Yeah, definitely with practice. I think about reaching the correct audience. And with as many podcasts as there are out there, how do you get that little piece of the pie?

Len:
eah, that is... gosh, I wish I knew the answer to that question. I'd be rich, right?

The negative aspect of this particular strategy is that each podcast is pretty much hyperlocal. One of the advantages of podcasts is anyone around the world can listen to you for free. But, you know, who in Argentina cares about what's happening with the Sumner County legislative delegation?

Who in Robertson County cares about what's happening in Sumner County?

So it's hard to build an audience when you're very geographically constrained. But on the other hand, that's the audience you want to have. It's geographically constrained—because those are the people you want to reach.

So what I try to tell myself—and I only kind of half believe this—is that the raw numbers don’t matter. The fact that you're reaching people that you weren’t reaching before is what matters.

Brandi:
Right.

Len:
The Loyal Opposition is not a profit-making enterprise. If I break even in a given year, I'm lucky. So, I don’t look at it in terms of raw numbers. Of course, I like it when I look at my Spotify for Creators statistics and I see someone actually listened to an episode. But it's not the only measure of success.

Brandi:
Gotcha. Yeah. Well, and it's interesting that you brought up being geographically constrained as a negative because I was sort of looking at that as your strength. I mean, because you are able to be so plugged in, I feel like you build relationships and you do have listeners because of that.

Building Real-World Community Through Events and Collaboration

Brandi:
So with that in mind, let's dive a little bit deeper into being plugged in locally. Why can it be important, and what are the benefits?

Len:
Yeah, I guess it's probably better to say that being hyperlocal is a challenge rather than a drawback, right?

Brandi:
Yeah.

Len:
I mean, it is. And I've had well over 100 guests on the show over the years now. We've been doing it—it'll be three years in August—and it has been an honor and a privilege to meet 99% of those people. It's been a cool endeavor, if for no other reason than I got to meet some of these people, right?

These are cool people. These are influential people. These are interesting people. And knowing them makes me more—as you say—plugged in, right? It makes me more aware of who I need to talk to or where I need to go if I want to get something done. So that's been great. That's been great.

But yeah, I guess the more plugged in you are, the bigger difference you can make. And having a hyperlocal podcast where all guests, by nature, are hyperlocal and plugged in—right? It happens.

The fact that you're reaching people that you weren't reaching before is what matters.

Brandi:
Exactly.

Len:

It's kind of like—you get the ball rolling down the mountain and it goes faster and faster. You know, when I first started, I was like, “How am I going to get a guest every week? Who's going to want to talk on this show every week?”

During political season, I was sure it was easier because there's always candidates who want to get on the air and talk about their issues and whatnot. But I was really worried there for a while. There were days when it was show day, it was nine o’clock in the morning, and I didn't have a guest for five o’clock in the afternoon.

Now I’m booked through August. I had a guy who wants to come on the show—I was talking to him last night—and he's like, “Yeah, I want to come.” And I'm like, “Yeah, well, I'm looking at like August 30th.” He's like, “Really? So late?” I'm like, “We're filling up.”

Brandi:
Right.

Len:
I mean, so it's kind of like I'm actually having the opposite problem, which I guess is a good problem to have. And it also shows that there's some demand out there for wanting to be on the show—or at least the willingness.

Brandi:
Yeah. There's value for sure.

Len:
As well as to me, as well as to my audience.

Brandi:
Exactly.

Len:
And that’s the answer to every question, isn’t it? It’s all about the audience, right? What’s better for them? How do I give them a better product? How do I grow them? How do I make them more involved? How do I make them happier to live in this community—or want to get involved in this community?

It’s all about them. Everything we do. I think if you keep that at the forefront of your mind, you'll have a better show.

Brandi:
Yeah, for sure. Let's pivot a little bit. Well, I don't know if it's pivoting, but let's talk about building community.

Len:
Sure, we'll call that a pivot.

Brandi:
Because you're doing this—you’re doing this with the podcast, you had a party, you do events. So how could someone even start to build community or get plugged into their local area when they haven’t really done that before?

Len:
Well, the guest list for the party that you attended...

*Len celebrating one year of The Loyal Opposition at a party and fundraiser with previous podcast guests.*

First of all, community building is part of the mission of The Loyal Opposition. Because it is through community—you know that old saying, it takes a village? I'm a firm believer in that.

All of us working together can do way more than any one or two of us working by ourselves.

Brandi:
For sure.

Len:
Plus, it is very valuable for people in the minority to know that there are others like them.

We get a lot of party sorts of things where people say, “Oh, I didn’t know you guys were here. It’s so nice to meet someone who believes the way I do. I didn’t know there was anyone else.”

Brandi:
Right. Yeah.

Len:
So a community for people like that—you know, on my show yesterday, we talked about the power of the protests that happened over the weekend. My show intern attended the Gallatin protest, and the first segment of the show was basically a rally recap.

One of the things we touched on was that it's so nice to meet other people who think the way we do. It's so nice to see friends that you haven’t seen in a while. And it's so nice to know that there are other people like this out there.

And in the case of Gallatin, there were like 500 people there—which, for Gallatin, is pretty good size. We had 10,000 in Nashville, but Gallatin was great.

So I think community is an important part of the equation, whatever you're trying to do. And so one of the missions of The Loyal Opposition is to build community. And we do that through the website, through the podcast, through social media, through the radio show, through events, and all the other stuff we do. Selling The Loyal Opposition t-shirts—got to get you a t-shirt, by the way. Tell me your size before we leave! I'll stash one aside for you.

Because a strong community is a good community. A strong community is a powerful community. So that’s definitely a big part of what we do.

To start building community—well, like I started saying, the guest list for that party was, first of all, all the guests that have been on the show. So just by having a different guest every week—or however often you do your podcast—that’s a new member of your community.

So the first thing I did before I invited anybody else to that party was invite all the guests on my show. And a bunch of them said yes. They came. They were there. A bunch of them said, “I'd love to, but I couldn't come. Here's money.” And some didn't. But a lot of them did.

You were there, so you saw the crowd that was there. It was nice. It was a nice crowd. It wasn't huge, but it was a nice crowd.

Brandi:
Yeah.

Len:
But I would say as many people as were there—or even more—contributed to the fundraiser than actually showed up.

Brandi:
That's fantastic.

Len:
So if there were 30 people at the event, there were at least 30 people who participated in some way. That counts, right? That’s community.

So, you know, you build community through being in the community. Through the podcast, in this case. You build a community of guests. And then you ask your friends and people that you know who would be interested and whatnot, and people who you think would be interesting to be there.

Because one of the things I wanted the events to be is like where cool people can connect with other cool people who they may not have known before.

Brandi:
Right. Right.

Len:
Because when cool people get together—that’s when magic happens.

Brandi:
Yes. Absolutely.

Len:
And so that’s going to be a continuing thing. We’re going to have a party every year. The beneficiary every year will not be The Loyal Opposition. We’ll pick some organization or charity that was represented on the show over the previous year and we’ll put the money there.

I used TLO as the recipient the first year just because I had a lot of expenses starting it up. But now those are covered and we’re doing fine.

So yes—we’re going to do that.

To build community, you start with one. And after a while, one becomes 100. Before you know it—you’ve got a party, right?

Brandi:
There you go. So it's baby steps.

Len:
Yeah.

Brandi:
Okay. And to give a little context to our audience about the protest you're talking about—we’re recording this in June [2025]. So it will be a little while past when this comes out. But we're talking about the No Kings protest that just happened.

Len:
Yeah.

How to Find Like-Minded People in a Politically Divided Area

Brandi:
You mentioned being in a place where progressive people essentially don't know that other progressive people exist.

Len:
Exactly. A lot of people don’t like party labels or other things, so a nice common denominator word like progressive...

Brandi:
Yeah, exactly.

Len:
You saw people there who would never go to a Democratic Party meeting, for example, but would certainly vote the same way.

These are places where people can feel like they’re part of a community—part of something larger than themselves. A part of a movement. It gives those people a positive feeling, a sense of community, a sense of belonging, a sense of hope.

Because, you know, one guy at the protest—Carolina, my intern, was telling me—he said something like, “All we have to do is hold on by the skin of our teeth until November. You know, if we can do that, we’re going to be okay.”

Sort of hopeful messages like that—people can take away from an event like that. That puts people in a better mood. Makes people feel a little less depressed. And that’s a valuable service, I think.

Brandi:
Yeah, for sure. What would you say to someone who doesn’t even know how to find like-minded people?

So, you know, it's no secret that Tennessee is a red state. How do you even start to find people who are like-minded?

Len:
Well, if you've got social media, that's an easy first step.

Let’s say you live in Sequatchie County, Tennessee. If you're on Facebook, search “Sequatchie County Democratic Party.” If it exists, they're there.

Step number one: follow or like.
Step number two: subscribe to their email list if they've got one.
Step number three: bookmark their website.

Listen. Learn. Maybe respond to a comment. Maybe post a comment. Maybe start a discussion or become involved in a discussion. See how it goes. If you like it—great. If not—move on to somewhere else.

And if you do like it—hey, maybe you go to the next meeting. “Hey, they're having a potluck next month. Maybe I'll bring my famous macaroni and cheese and see how it goes.”

On the other hand, if you're in Sequatchie County and you're interested in starting a small business or being an entrepreneur, maybe you type in “chamber of commerce” in that search box. Or maybe you type in “small businesses.” Do it that way. Or do a Google search.

The internet makes it a little easier to do those sorts of things these days.

Once you just step your tiny toe in the water, you meet people. “Oh, I know someone you should talk to.” “Oh, I know this other group you should belong to because they're just like you and they believe in the same things,” and whatnot, right? And before you know it, all these doors are open to you—and then it’s just up to you to step through them.

Even if you're living in the middle of nowhere, there's an organized Democratic Party in every single county in Tennessee. So if that's your thing, that's the way to go—search Facebook, search the web on Google, and you will find they all have either a website or a Facebook page or both. And I'm sure your local Republican parties do the same exact thing. I'm sure your local civic and charitable organizations do the exact same thing. I'm sure your local fraternal organizations do. You know—whatever it is that floats your boat, I think you can find it.

I'll give you a great example. You mentioned that I'm a pilot. Some years ago, I was thinking about buying an airplane—and I did, actually. I owned an airplane for a few years. It was kind of cool. But I wanted to get more involved with the local pilot community—see what was going on, see if there were any events, anywhere I could learn, whatnot.

Through searching, I found the Experimental Aircraft Association, which is an organization of pilots that has chapters at different airports around the country. And it turns out they had one at the Gallatin Airport. They had a monthly meeting, and they do a monthly fly-in breakfast. So I showed up one day—and within a year, I was president of the local chapter.

Brandi:
Wow. Okay. I really like how you mentioned the going-in-person piece, because I feel like a lot of people do their Google searches, do their Facebook searches, and then they sort of stop there. They get the emails, and they're like, “Okay, I'm informed.” Man, I'm lonely. Man, what do I even do?

So just having the courage to walk through that door, like you said—go in person, have the contact—I think is a really important piece of it.

Len:
I agree completely. I consider myself a very shy person.

Brandi:
Same.

Len:
Always have been. So that’s a very hard thing for me to do. “Oh yeah, I'm on the Facebook. I'm following their website. I get the newsletter. This is great. This is wonderful.” But at some point, you've got to take that next step. And you know—it was hard.

A friend helped me. A friend I work with was getting involved. He’s like, “You should come to a meeting with me.” That made it a whole lot easier.

Yeah. Like, I have never been to the Nashville Podcasters Meetup. So what did I do? I asked Brandi Fleck to go with me. And we ended up not being able to go, but perhaps in the August meetup, we will be.

Brandi:
Yes, that would be amazing.

Len:
Because that makes it easier. Go with a friend.

Brandi:

Oh, I was so nervous. I'll just throw that out there too—when you threw The Loyal Opposition party that was celebrating your year and you were doing the fundraiser, I didn’t know anybody, guys. Like, I literally just got in my car and drove. I was so nervous before I got there.

But once I got there, there were so many nice people that just had great stories to tell.

Len:

And, you know, they were nice people. If nothing else, they were nice people.

Brandi:
Right. Yeah.

Is it Possible to Build Community Across Political Differences?

Brandi:
Well, and the fact that you talked about the pilot organization, which is not political—so when you are interested in an organization like that, you're going to run into people who aren't like-minded.

Len:
Yeah, absolutely. Very true in that particular example, actually.

Brandi:
That doesn’t surprise me. So I’m wondering—what are your thoughts on community building with people who aren’t like-minded? Is it possible? Where do you set boundaries? How do you even navigate that?

Len:
Yeah, I think the key is setting boundaries.

The pilot group tends to be older, wealthier white men. And by and large, that’s Republicans for you, right? That’s their big demographic. So when I started getting involved with the local EAA chapter—you know, you don’t necessarily talk politics at the events, but you pick up on things. People say something, whatever. And after a while, you kind of get the idea, “Oh, these people are like this, and I’m like this. I better not say anything about...”

But on the one hand, it’s like, yeah, maybe I shouldn’t hang out with these people. But on the other hand, if you have 80% of stuff in common and 20% of stuff not in common—shouldn’t the 80% outweigh the 20%?

Brandi:
It could.

Len:
So I’m like, yeah, if I’m feeling in an aviation mood, I want to hang out with pilots. I want to talk flying. I want to go flying. I want to hang out at the airport and eat pancakes and watch airplanes. As long as I stick to those subjects, I’m going to have a great time. Because everyone there is the same—they want to talk airplanes, they want to fly airplanes, and drink coffee and hang out. Talk flying. Everyone’s happy. Right?

And then you go home and you get online with your lefty group friends and talk politics. So I think you can compartmentalize to a certain extent.

Now, I know many people who have ended friendships because of political reasons. “You voted for Trump—I can’t be friends with you anymore.” And I get that. I understand that. There are people who I’ve unfriended on Facebook because of that. It’s just like—we’re so fundamentally different that it can’t happen.

But if politics isn’t such a big part of your life—and it isn’t such a big part of the other person’s life—and the other things you have in common are big parts of your life, cool. You know?

So I think that’s where you draw the line. And everyone probably draws it a little bit differently. That’s your own choice to make.

Brandi:
Yeah.

Len:
But if I restricted myself just to being friends with progressives and Democrats and liberals, I’d be a pretty lonely guy.

Brandi:
Yeah.

Len:
And, you know, that’s not good. I think that’s not good. I live in Tennessee, so you’re going to meet Republicans, right? Find the nice ones. Find the ones you can get along with.

I’ve had many Republicans on my show—even talking about political issues—there are areas where we overlap.

Brandi:
That’s a good point.

Len:
Not every Republican in Sumner County is an all-out MAGA, right-wing, crazy Trumper, right?

Brandi:
That’s a really good point.

Len:
I’ll give you an example. I consider Ferrell Haile—who was my state senator—he’s a Republican, and I consider him a friend of mine. He’s a great guy. He’s a nice guy. He’s very moderate. And he listens. He listens and he reaches out.

I sent him a note about something not too long ago, and he runs into me at the Chamber of Commerce lunch a couple of weeks ago and says—he pulls me aside—and he said, “I just want to thank you for your note.”

None of the other ones would do that. I’d have him on my show every week if he wanted to come.

So, you see where there’s overlap—where maybe it’s more like this than it is like that. And for the people who are so far away from you—yeah, you’re probably not going to be friends with them anyway, because their worldview is going to be totally different than yours.

But for the people who are a little bit closer—there’s room.

Why Local Elections Matter More Than You Think

Brandi:
Okay. Now, running for local government office—that is something that you help people with as part of The Loyal Opposition. And I know that that is primarily in Sumner County, but there are local offices everywhere. So—why is that important?

Len:
Well, there’s the old saying that all politics is local. And there’s another old saying that says, who your city council person is usually has more effect on your life than who the President of the United States is.

And in many cases, that’s true. If there’s a big zoning issue in your town—they’re going to build a nuclear power plant next door to your subdivision—all of a sudden, who’s on the planning commission or the city council is really important to you, right?

So local offices, in terms of day-to-day stuff—just living in a nice town, living in a well-governed community—is important for quality of life.

I tend to believe that Gallatin, Tennessee—where I live—tends to be a fairly well-run city. Perfect? No. Better than others? I think so. And who your mayor is, who your city council people are—that’s what makes that happen.

Local politics doesn’t get the glamour that the federal stuff does. The media pays attention to every little single thing the president does, or a candidate for president does. And they pretty much ignore what city council people do, except to report on who voted for what at the meetings each month.

So it certainly isn’t glamorous, but it really is kind of where the rubber meets the road. If you want your road paved or your school painted or a new roof on the civic center so you can go swimming in the pool—these are the people that make a difference in your life.

Local Issues, National Impact: Education, Immigration & Equity

Brandi:
That’s a really good point. I remember when the lockdown was happening in 2020, the mayor of Franklin—definitely a Republican, definitely not liberal—but made choices that I agreed with for our health. And I really appreciated that.

But like—okay, what about... we’ve had ICE in our local communities here recently. Do local politics have an impact on that type of federal activity?

Len:
To some extent, I think it can. In the current administration’s case, they kind of go after people who are politically opposed to them. So, if the mayor of Los Angeles is a big Democrat and is opposed to Trump policies—you’re probably going to find ICE in L.A., right? Because that’s who we’ve got as our leader.

But in more normal days, maybe not as much so. I think local politics can set the tone. That plays a role in how we feel about what’s done on the federal level, and that influences how we vote federally.

Let me give you an example. On yesterday’s show, we had the director of schools for Sumner County on the show. He comes on once a year, and we talk schools—what’s going on.

In the last legislative session, they tried to pass a bill that could give school districts the ability to deny education to students who were kids of undocumented immigrants. I asked him what he thought about that—because the bill’s going to come around again.

He hedged a little bit—he said, “Well, we’re pretty sure that’s going to be tied up in court for years. It isn’t going to really have any real impact on us for quite a while.”

He said, “But I will tell you that the policy in Sumner County is—every kid that lives in Sumner County will get educated by the Sumner County Schools. Every kid. Period.”

Brandi:
Wow.

Len:
So he said something there without really saying something.

It’s the policy of the Sumner County Schools to educate every kid. That makes a bit of a statement. It’s not overtly political. It’s a repetition of their existing policy—but it says every kid deserves an education.

If people stop and think about that and apply a little critical thinking:
“Every kid deserves an education.”
“Should we punish the kid for what their parents did?”
“Is that fair?”
“Wouldn’t it be better for our community if everyone had an education?”

Education leads to higher economic satisfaction, income, and spending. Wouldn’t it be good if we had a well-educated population to spend more money in our stores and pay more taxes?

The more educated you are, the more likely you are to be involved in your community. Don’t we want that?

So maybe this is a pretty good idea—that all kids should have access to an education.

And maybe that guy who’s pushing for this bill—even though I voted for him the last 27 times—maybe he’s wrong in this case. Maybe I should say something.

Final Thoughts: Start Small, Think Bigger, Stay Connected

Len:
Maybe I should say, “Hey, we shouldn’t be punishing kids just because their parents made a bad decision.”

Brandi:
Right. There’d be a lot of punished kids out there if that were the rule.

Len:
Exactly. That’s thinking critically. That’s seeing the bigger picture. And that was a very local thing—Sumner County Schools, about as local as it gets.

Maybe the legislator was listening. Maybe his constituents were listening. Maybe they make a call. It’s possible. I don’t know how likely. But at least we’re trying.

Brandi:
I really like that you brought up that just because you voted for somebody doesn’t mean they’re always right. We have this black-and-white thinking going on as a country right now, where if you agreed with a leader once, you must agree with them on everything.

Len:
It’s not true. I've met zero perfect people in the world that are perfect, Brandi. How about you?

Brandi:
Same. Yes. We’re all flawed human beings. We’re all wrong some of the time—no matter how smart we are.

Well, Len, what have I not asked you that you think is important to share?

Len:
I love my cats. There’s one of them right there, hanging out with me. Pretty much sound asleep.

Brandi:
Oh my goodness. I’m an animal lover—especially cats. And I think people who don’t love animals have something wrong with them.

Len:
There’s something for you. A little controversy.

Brandi:
Yeah! Let us know—if you guys want to post a comment about what you love about your pet, do that. I think that’d be really fun.

But also—where can people find you and your work?

Len:
I guess the easiest way is just to head over to our website:
www.theloyalopposition.online.

From there, you can listen to old shows, get connected, subscribe, like us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. See what we’re doing, look at pictures, see what events are coming up. If you live in Sumner County or in Tennessee, there are ways to contact your legislators and your local governments.

And of course, from there, you can reach all of our social media—we’re on Facebook, Instagram, and Blue Sky.

Brandi:
Awesome. All right, Len, thank you so much for coming on the show and for the work you’re doing in the world. I really appreciate it.

Len:
Thank you for having me, Brandi. And I look forward to our visit on my show next week, right?

Brandi:
Next week.

Len:
Fantastic.

Brandi:
Oh my gosh. So that episode's going to come out before this one—even though we’re recording this first. I wish I could go back and say, “Guys, go listen!”

Len:
They’ll be able to. You tell them—they’re listening right now. They know to go to the website and click where it says Brandi Fleck.

Brandi:
Perfect. All right. Well, thank you so much.

Len:
Thank you. Have a great day.