DeEbony’s Light: How One Mother Turned Grief Into a Healing Movement

Interview By Brandi Fleck

This is a transcript of the conversation between myself, Brandi Fleck, Host of the Human Amplified podcast and Shirl Baker, founder of the DeEbony Groves Foundation, on turning personal tragedy into healing and hope for grieving mothers.

When the unthinkable happens, how do you keep breathing, let alone find the strength to help others heal?

In this heartfelt episode of Human Amplified, I sit down with Shirl Baker, mother of DeEbony Groves—one of the victims of the 2018 Waffle House shooting in Nashville. Shirl shares her raw, powerful story of navigating grief, learning to live with an unfillable hole in her heart, and ultimately founding the DeEbony Groves Foundation to support other mothers who've lost children to tragic violence.

Together, we explore what it means to survive the unimaginable, why Shirl never felt bitterness toward the shooter, and how the foundation’s annual retreat is offering hope and restoration to grieving families across the U.S.

If you’ve ever needed proof that love, faith, and resilience can grow even in the darkest places—this is it.

Keep scrolling to read the entire conversation. If you’d rather listen than read, you can do that here, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you get your podcasts. Or, watch the YouTube video below.

Table of Contents

Tap here to watch this interview instead.

Introducing Shirl Baker of the DeEbony Groves Foundation

Brandi
What does being human mean to you?

Shirl
I feel like that covers a lot of territory, but to try to sum it up, to me, it would be a heavy load because you probably cover a large territory of responsibilities for a lot of people that may look up to you or believe in you. And as humans, sometimes we fall, and that's not our intent, but we have to figure out a way to still get our focus back together and keep moving forward and continue to shine.

Brandi
Beautiful. Thank you so much.

Shirl
You're welcome.

Brandi
Everyone, today we are welcoming to the show Shirl Baker, or Shirl Groves Baker. She's the founder of the DeEbony Groves Foundation based in Gallatin, Tennessee. And despite the devastating loss of her daughter and after much research, Shirl realized there were no local avenues for grieving mothers' voices to be heard or to help guide them down the lonely, dark path of recovery after the loss of a child, which has happened to Shirl.

And with the knowledge she obtained and a passion in her heart to serve, Shirl channels her heartache into immense strength to restore hope for the future by reaching out to mothers in the Tennessee area who have lost a child or children through tragic death.

Through Shirl's vision, the foundation's goal is to provide support groups, financial assistance, and empowerment to grieving mothers as they press forward toward living their new normal. Shirl's a child of God, a wife, a mother, and an anointed praise and worship leader at Grace Tabernacle Christian Center in Portland, Tennessee. She's had many speaking engagements, and I'm excited that she's going to be here today. She has a really important story to share. She's a woman who is focused on the will of God as she lives each day by the grace of God.

So, Shirl, welcome to the show.

Shirl
Good morning. Good morning. Thank you for having me.

Brandi
Yeah, thanks so much for being here. What else do you want listeners to know about who you are and what you do?

A Mission to Help Grieving Mothers

Shirl
I would like for the listeners to know that I am a survivor, and every single day that I wake up, I just live and thrive to survive. I don't want what I've been through to define who I am or where I can go in life, but I am definitely on a mission. On a mission.

Brandi
Oh, okay. What's your mission?

Shirl
My mission is to reach out to the mothers. It just holds a very, very, very special place in my heart.

Brandi
Well, and I know that—we had coffee a while ago before we decided to do this podcast interview, and you told me all about your life—and you mentioned that you have two grown children.

Shirl
Yes, yes, yes. And DeEbony is passed on.

Brandi
Yes. But what do you want us to know about your children?

Remembering DeEbony and Celebrating D’Angelo

Shirl
My oldest is D'Angelo Groves. Oh my God, he is so dedicated. He's compassionate. He loves to work out. He holds down about three jobs right now. And he also plays the organ at his church where he attends in Franklin, Kentucky.

Brandi
So he's really busy and very dedicated.

Shirl
Yes, and he is the reason that DeEbony decided to go to Belmont, because he fell in love with the campus first. And she looked up to her big brother. So as she graduated, she decided she wanted to go there as well.

Brandi
Beautiful. Okay. So it sounds like they were really close.

Shirl
Very close. They were 10 years apart in age, but the bond is just unbelievable.

The Day Everything Changed: April 22, 2018

Brandi
So a lot of people in Nashville, which is where we are—well, we're in the surrounding areas—they sort of know your story. But we have an audience that's more global for this podcast. And so for the people who don't know your story, just if you wouldn't mind taking as long as you need to, to just tell us how your life was changed forever.

Shirl
Yes. I just recall—often we say words or give encouragement to others, and we really don't… we mean well, but until it happens to us, the story becomes surreal. Alive.

On Sunday morning, April 22, 2018, I recall being up. I cooked breakfast every Sunday morning, and I turned the news on, and they were airing the shooting. As the cameras skimmed the parking lot, I'm looking because my daughter had my car. I didn't see my car, so I was thankful for that. But then I started praying for the people that had been affected.

Still didn’t know. Finished breakfast, got a shower, went to church. Had the best day ever at church—the best day ever. By the time church was over, I turned my phone on, and as far as I could scroll, I had all these messages. I'm like, what is really going on?

So while I'm trying to figure out what is going on, my son called another lady at the church.

“Is my mom at church today?”

And they were like, “Yes.”

“I need to speak to her.”

So DeEbony had been out the night before and she didn't come home. And her roommate at Belmont said that was not her character. She was just reaching out to my son to see if he had heard anything. Of course, he hadn't. He was out of town for a wedding. So he reached out to me.

After I finished cooking breakfast and before I went to church, I sent DeEbony a message because sometimes she works on Sundays. And I said, “There's been a shooting, and the predator is on the loose. Please be careful. Watch your surroundings. Have a blessed day. I love you.”

By this time, I ran to my pastor and I said, “My daughter is missing, and I have to go to Nashville.”

So he immediately asked everybody for a moment of silence. The whole congregation came together to pray, and two ladies at church drove me to Nashville while I sat in the back seat and answered all these messages and made phone calls.

Learning the Devastating Truth at Vanderbilt

Shirl
As I approached Vanderbilt—because I heard that was where they were taking the people that were wounded—my heart was racing. My son called me back and said he had called my daughter's job and she didn't show up for work that day and hadn't called in. That was not her character.

So once I got to Vanderbilt, I went to several different areas. I could see people in there hugging and crying. I went over to them to love on them, still not knowing. You know, I thought my daughter was there. I thought my daughter could have been in the ER or ICU. Nobody said anything.

So I went to three different offices. They kept saying they did not have my daughter there.

I said, “Yes, she has to be here because the people she was hanging out with were also at the Waffle House.”

Nothing.

Finally, after going in three offices, I stepped outside to get some fresh air. While I was sitting there, someone walked outside to me, and my cell phone rang at the same time. It was family and friends on one line. My husband was calling on one line. And someone from Vanderbilt was standing in front of me to let me know that my daughter wasn't there because she died on the scene. So therefore, they didn't take her to the hospital. They took her on to the funeral home.

All I can remember is just screaming. Just screaming because I needed help. I needed help, and the only help I know that could help me at that moment would be from God.

Brandi
I can't even imagine what that must have been like.

Living with Grief and the Daily Struggle to Move Forward

Shirl
I still struggle to describe it. I often tell people—horrible, devastating, horrific—all of those are good words. But my tragedy that I experienced, I feel like at times someone stuck a knife in me and kind of carved it down into my soul. And every time it airs on the news, it's like that knife is being twisted because it reopens my wounds. And I feel like even though I'm pressing forward, that hole—that loneliness—it will never, ever be filled.

But somehow, every day, either through tears, reminiscing, I have to strive to find a way to maneuver around it so that I can keep living.

Brandi
How do you do that? And I was going to ask you sort of like, you know, about your journey with grief, but it sounds like you've described that's what your journey with grief is like. What do you… what do you do?

Finding Strength Through Faith After Losing a Child

Shirl
So first of all, not one day of grief counseling.

The week leading up to my daughter's funeral, it aired three to five times every day because he was on the run for a while. And I was like—I could feel my insides spiraling down, like out of control. So about the third or fourth day, I remember going in my living room, just having some me time and falling on my knees—because that's where I do most of my praying. And I looked up to heaven and I told the Lord that if you don't help me, I just don't know if I'm going to make it through this. Because I knew in my own strength, I couldn't do it on my own.

And from that point on, when I’d get up to do my devotion, these scriptures were like being dropped in my spirit. So there were about seven to nine scriptures, and I incorporated them every single morning with my regular devotion for over a year. And even though I still cried every day, I could go back to these scriptures, and I remember feeling light, feeling just a little bit easy. And it helped me to have the strength that I needed to get up every day and keep fighting and keep looking forward.

Brandi
What made you decide not to do grief counseling?

Why Grief Counseling Didn’t Work for Me

Shirl
So in 2012, my mom passed away, which was my best friend. I was a basket case. I mean, I think if you have a loved one that's sick or, you know, they've given them a lifespan of three to six months or they're on hospice and you expect them to die, it's one thing.

My mom wasn't really sick. She spent Thanksgiving Day with us. We had the best day ever. She fixed to-go plates and went home. Within 30 minutes, she had an aneurysm and had to go to ICU. And she never recovered. So that was really, really devastating for me.

And I went to grief counseling. And while I was there, I ended up praying for other people. And I'm like, what about me? I mean, I came for mine, but I needed something. So I felt like at that moment, I really didn't get what I went for. But also at the same time, helping people—it just does something to my heart. It's just such a great passion. And so I was able to love on other people and encourage them and even pray for them, even though sometimes I left empty.

Brandi
That makes sense that that would not be helpful.

Processing Grief in Public After Tragedy

Brandi
Well, I want to ask you too. So I know that as a trauma-informed professional, when you see that on the news, it's going to reopen your wound, like you said. So could you just explain for us a little bit about why it's okay to talk about it now? Because—is it reopening that wound for you? And is it worth it?

Shirl
Yes, I think it's worth it. It does reopen the wound, but I think it's my therapy.

You Might Also Like to Read: The Healing Power of Telling Your Story

Brandi
Okay.

Shirl
I mean, I still cry. I will probably cry again before this is over. But after I talk about it, it just feels like a weight has been lifted. And I often tell the mothers—because they try to be strong and not cry and hold it in—and a lot of them often share that, “I do this, this, and this for my family. I do this, this, and this for my kids. I do this, this, and this for my grandkids.” I say, “But look, what about you?” I said, “You have to release the weight that you're carrying or it'll beat you down. And you have to be strong enough every day to be able to keep doing what you do for your family. And if you get beat down, who's going to do it?”

So usually when we get together, I let them cry. You don’t have to explain why you’re crying, because I know.

Spreading Light in the Darkness of Grief

Brandi
Why is it worth it to—well, you said it's like your therapy, but it almost sounds like it's therapy through helping others. But it's different from what it was in the grief counseling. How is it different?

Shirl
I am so connected and determined to help people come out of a dark place. I've met mothers that, years after the loss of their child, have still not been strong enough—or mentally strong enough—to go back into the workplace yet. That dark place is just… it seems cold. It's lonely. It could seem gloomy, depressing, of course.

And I just feel like if they—not just they, me—as long as I can keep getting up every day, opening up my blinds or walking out in my yard or speaking to somebody or hugging on somebody…

There are days I go to Walmart to get my groceries, and I say, “Okay, today is the day. When I walk in Walmart, every person that I come in contact with—it doesn't matter size, it doesn't matter color—it's a ‘Good morning. How are you today? I hope you have a great day.’”

And one man cried. He said, “I got up this morning, and I made coffee, and I prepared to come to work. Not one person in my household offered me a good morning.”

I just feel like sometimes we get busy and we're set on a routine—and we got to do this, this, and this before we leave. We watch the clock, we’ve got to be here by a certain time, and we miss so many moments.

We miss so many moments to smile. We miss so many moments to reflect. We miss moments to love and to spread a little joy. And life is so short. It's so short.

Choosing Forgiveness Instead of Bitterness

Brandi
Well, I just want to thank you again for sharing this, because I think it is really helpful for other parents who are going through the same thing. And I do want to ask you—I’m not going to rehash all the details that were in the news. I remember. I remember when this was on the news as well.

So for listeners who want to know more about the story, I can link the news story in the show notes so you can go look at those details. But I will say, there was a perpetrator involved, which you mentioned, and he was still on the loose. What have you experienced around that fact, and how have you dealt with emotions toward that person?

Shirl
Well, a lot of people find this hard to believe, and at times I do, but—I went to my pastor. Because along my journey, I have met a lot of families, a lot of mothers, that have become bitter. That are very angry.

I didn’t experience that.

I'm hurt. I'm lost. I'm lonely. I miss my daughter’s voice. I miss her laughter. But angry and bitter was not ever in my agenda.

And one time I went to my pastor. I said, “Is something wrong with me?” I said, “Because shouldn't I be bitter? Shouldn't I be angry?” And there are people in authority that have told me, “You have a right to be angry.” But I wasn’t.

But my pastor said, “The Holy One is inside of you, and the Lord is not going to allow you to react the way everybody else acts. Because greater is He that is within me than he that is in the world.”

So sometimes, in spite of what we feel or what we go through, we still have to maintain. We still have to shine. We still have to be strong. Even if I walk away with tears rolling down my face, my agenda is to stay on that path and try to keep my focus on God, because I know He is going to carry me through.

Brandi
It sounds like you weren't bitter at all, but you were grappling with the fact that you weren’t.

Shirl
Yes, because I ran into so many people that were along the way. And I'm not just talking about mothers that lost kids. I'm talking about the siblings. I'm talking about family members. I just—I never went there.

Brandi
And you—because of God, right?

Shirl
Yes, definitely.

Brandi
Okay. Okay. Do you think about this man ever? Does he cross your mind?

Reflections on the Waffle House Shooter

Shirl
Not a lot. One of the questions I think you and I had also talked about was the perpetrator. And I do honestly feel that every act of violence is not meant to…

I'm not a doctor. I don't have a degree. I didn't go to college. But every act of violence to me is not mental. Because mental people do irrational things. They do random acts. And he was seen on video sitting in the parking lot watching people go in and out.

So to me, that means he had time to change his mind. So that was premeditated in my eyes.

Brandi
As a woman of God, why do you think things like this happen?

Shirl
I don't have the answers for that. But I can tell you what I have thought about. A couple of years ago, I was on another interview, and there was like a survey about gun violence and mass shootings.

I graduated in the ‘80s. And in the ‘80s, we didn’t have this kind of stuff. This was unheard of. Maybe one every five years, or 10 years maybe, or something along those lines.

So I feel in my heart—and I don’t have documented paperwork or anything on this—there’s something that we did in the ‘80s that we’re not doing now. There’s something that we did in the ‘80s that along the way we’ve changed. I don’t know what that is. But for things to go from such a calmness to so much rapidness in gun violence, there has to be an era where we dropped the ball on something.

And when I say “we,” I just mean America as a whole.

Brandi
I cannot quote, like, you know, the way policies have changed or anything like that by any means. But I do feel like automatic-style weapons weren’t always legal. I don’t know when they became legal, but they’ve definitely proliferated throughout our culture.

Shirl
Yes. I often wonder why. Why do we need Army-style weapons in our normal day life? I mean, this is not a war zone. I feel like if a person wants to use those kind of weapons, let’s sign them up.

Brandi
Yeah.

Shirl
Help them defend America as a whole.

Another thing I often wonder is why—when people do an act of violence—do they go out and hurt other people? People that don’t know them. People that haven’t done anything to them.

They never go—well, I’m not going to say never—they usually don’t go and hurt their own family. So I don’t… I don’t know.

Brandi
Yeah, definitely.

Shirl
But I think about that often.

Brandi
If we had the answers… well, I don’t know. I was about to say, if we had the answers, maybe this wouldn’t be a problem. But I don’t know. I feel like we do have some of the answers, but it’s still a problem.

Shirl
Yes. Yes. There’s still something missing somewhere.

Finding Hope and Taking Action After Gun Violence

Brandi
Yeah. Well, do you have any ideas for what would help prevent this type of violence to other people in the future?

Shirl
I really don’t. But I have been praying. Because I know people are growing up. People are graduating. People are going to school for all different types of fields and studies. And I just feel if God should raise someone up, or if He should send someone or appoint someone—and if I can help—I am willing to join teams with whoever that is and try to help.

I will do whatever I can to assist, to encourage, to uplift, to help pave the way. Because I don’t want any other families to experience what we’ve all been through.

Brandi
Yeah, yeah. Well, and you have been doing really deep work with the DeEbony Foundation on that front to just help other—well, help families deal with what they’ve been through. And we’re going to talk about that in just a minute.

A Moment of Heroism: James Shaw’s Role at the Waffle House

Brandi
I have one more question for you about that day when your life changed. A hero emerged that day. I know it was too late, you know, for DeEbony by the time he got there. Have you met him, and have you talked to him?

Shirl
Yes. I love him as a son. I think he is awesome. He’s been to my home. We text randomly. I did share with him how thankful I am that he moved when he did. Even though my daughter did not survive, I am totally sold out that if he had not moved when he did, there would not have been one witness left in that place. All they would have had would have been the video, because the perpetrator was reloading his gun.

So I tell James Shaw all the time, you know, don’t feel guilty. Don’t feel any guilt at all. I love him. I’m proud of him. I’m thankful for him. And I appreciate everything that he tried to do, even though my daughter didn’t survive.

Brandi
Wow. I went back over and read some stories about him. Because I think that that is an interesting shining light that came out of a very dark situation. And when this all first happened, he was saying things like, “Well, I was just saving myself. I didn’t have a minute to think about if the other people were there. It was just a moment of survival.”

Shirl
Yes.

Brandi
What would you say about those sort of feelings from him?

Shirl
He was truthful. He shared some stuff from the Waffle House with me, but in the midst of sharing, I stopped him because I didn’t want it playing over in my mental.

So when the shooting actually started and he was running for his life, he was stepping on the tables, running. But of course, as he’s stepping, he has to look down, because in between the tables were spaces, and it could have been bad. If his foot had fallen off in there, he would have been trapped.

So as he’s running and looking down at the same time, he said, “I saw your daughter.” He said, “I can tell you—”

I said, “Uh-uh. I just want to remember her the way I remembered her last.” And I had spoken with her on that Saturday before it happened on that Sunday.

So he struggles. James Shaw, he carries a heavy load still to this day. I would imagine every time he closes his eyes, he relives it. I can imagine that every time he hears a noise, it triggers. I just feel like that’s a lot. And so I do let him talk and vent with me, but at some point I stop him, because I don’t want to know all the details.

Finding Strength Through Scripture and Daily Devotion

Brandi
That makes sense.

Shirl
And even when we went to court, they showed pictures, but they took the sound away. Because I just know that—I just think that would be devastating.

Brandi
Yeah, for sure. Okay. Well, I'm really glad that you two have formed a relationship. And even if he didn't think he was a hero in the moment, he really was.

Shirl
He was. He was.

Brandi
Yeah. Well, and one more thing. I know in the beginning you mentioned that you had scriptures playing to you as you were sort of going through the emotions. What—well, I was going to say, how did you start kind of dealing with that or incorporating those into your life in a way that was helpful?

Shirl
Well, as I do my daily devotion every morning, I’ve got like two or three books that I read every single day. I love Joel Osteen. Every year, somebody gives me a devotional book, and I'll read the book the whole year. And every Christmas, one of my girlfriends gives me another one. So as I do my devotion, I pick out a couple of my scriptures, and I share them.

So I kind of make a keepsake for the mothers. Every year, I incorporate my scriptures that may help them—and they may not. It may not be for everybody. But I make this, and I laminate it. So this year was the DeEbony Groves Foundation 2025. And I incorporated all the scriptures that the Lord has inspired me with. And I mean, they just encourage you. They let you know you're not alone, that He's with you and that He'll make a way for you.

You know, one scripture in particular—I went on a trip with James Shaw to Washington to speak on his behalf. He got a Heroes Award, and they asked me to come. I shared how awesome I thought he was, how kind he’s been, and how much I appreciate him.

And in this scripture, the Lord allowed me to know that I didn’t need to fight. What I'm in is a battle, but in this battle, I don’t have to fight. He's going to fight my battles for me. So all I’ve got to do is keep getting up every day, keep confessing Him every day, keep reading my devotion, keep spreading love, keep trying to spread joy. And in the background—or on my side, on the left and the right—God is going to be there, or He'll plant somebody beside me that can encourage me along my way.

So it’s better to fight a battle with someone than to be by yourself. That’s what I try to do for the mothers. I try to encourage them and love on them and let them know that there is hope. There is hope for the future.

Brandi
Yeah. Okay. Well, and that brings us to—can you just tell us everything there is to know about the DeEbony Groves Foundation? Who’s it for? How do you get involved? What do we need to know?

The DeEbony Groves Foundation: Support for Grieving Mothers

Shirl
Okay. So first of all, the night after the tragic shooting, there was a vigil held in Nashville at Bishop Walker's church—Mount Zion. And DeEbony was the baby. And parents that have multiple kids, you kind of worry more about the baby. You want to make sure the baby understands everything, the baby takes in everything.

So I always wanted to know that if something happened to me, that she could survive without me.

So at the vigil, people were coming up hugging on me. And when you hug or embrace someone, once the hug is over, you let go and you move on. So as I tried to move on, they were still holding me, whispering in my ear:

“Oh my God, DeEbony was an awesome person.”

Another one would say, “Oh my God, I was struggling in this area, and DeEbony was there for me.”

“Oh my God, I did this and it was wrong, and DeEbony told me I needed to go back and fix it.”

So with tears running down my face—in my heart—that moment, I knew she understood everything I was trying to instill in her as a parent.

From Vision to Action: Launching the Foundation

Shirl
So I left knowing I wanted to do something, but I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do. In 2019, someone paid it forward and sponsored me to attend the Trayvon Martin Foundation in Florida. They paid for my flight. They paid for my hotel stay. And everything was supplied once I got there.

I met about 40 mothers—Chicago, Detroit, Florida, Hawaii, New York, Philadelphia—and some of us are still on a group text. We know each other’s kids’ birthdays, and when the birthday starts to come, we start chiming in, encouraging each other:

“Okay, we know this day is coming. We want to lift you up. We want to love on you.”

We chime in on each other’s birthdays and actually on our child’s death day.

So from that moment on, I thought, okay, this is what I want to do.

I took my next-door neighbor to lunch when I got back from Florida, and I told her what I had in my heart. She said, “Okay, let’s do it.”

Building Community Through the Annual Retreat Weekend

Shirl
So I sent a text message out to about 10 family members, two of my daughter’s daycare teachers from when she was a child, her first job supervisor. And I said, “I want to do this foundation in honor of my daughter. I told them what I wanted it to be about. And I said I’d love to have your help. If you're interested, let me know.”

So when I laid my cell phone down and walked off, it started chiming. And I was like, “Oh no—they answered too fast. They don’t want to do it.” So I went back and picked my phone up, and everyone said yes.

“What do I need to do?”
“When are we getting started?”
“Count me in.”

And tears just started rolling down my face with joy.

Honoring Grief and Promoting Healing

Shirl
So it started out—I wanted to reach out to mothers in the Tennessee area only, because since I’m new at this, I don’t know what to expect. And I want to make sure I give the mothers everything that they need. I didn’t want them to come hurting and leave hurting.

So I started off with a small number. We started out with about 20 mothers.

News Channel 5 is my best friend—they would run an ad for me every year. And people would submit kind of like someone they knew—a mother or aunt that has lost a child, that is struggling, that they thought this would benefit.

So we bring the mothers in from the Tennessee area—we started out with Clarksville, Knoxville, Memphis, surrounding areas, Nashville of course—and we bring them in for an all-expenses-paid weekend.

We pay for their gas to get there. They bring their gas receipts, we reimburse their money to go back home. Their food is supplied the whole weekend. I have guest speakers come in.

The Weekend Retreat Schedule and Red Carpet Ceremony

Shirl
Usually on Friday night, it’s a meet-and-greet. My daughter was a member of Delta Sigma Theta, so the Deltas usually come on Friday for entertainment. And they would also share videos. Each one of them had a funny story about my daughter. Because even though what we’ve been through is bad, we don’t want to cry and stay in the valley the whole weekend.

So they would share their stories. One year, they even made a video. Two teachers from Belmont made videos and they were on there as well, sharing their stories.

Then on Saturday, we have what we call a pampering session. Because all tragedy doesn’t make the news, and not everyone has a support group. So we try to show them love.

And when you’re going through tragedy and dealing with grief, taking care of yourself—it’s just not in your top 10 things to do. You might not want to get up today. You may not want to comb your hair. You might not want to go outside and get sunshine.

So we have people come in and do back massages. They get facials. They can get their face makeup put on. We do yoga. And we also have a craft table.

At the craft table, they get to make beads and necklaces in honor of their loved one. This one has my daughter’s initials on it. And she’s also a Delta, so this one was made in red and it has Deltas on it. It says 2025.

So we do stuff like that so they can be creative and exercise their minds and get their minds off of the tragedy and what they’re going through.

Crowning Grieving Mothers with Honor and Love

Shirl
Then the highlight of the whole weekend is Saturday night—we do a red carpet event.

Since all tragedy doesn’t make the news, and they end up going through the grief process by themselves, I encourage the mothers to dress up. Some of them do casuals. Some wear jumpsuits. I even encourage them, “If you like bling and you want to wear a long dress—whatever it is—it’s your day.”

And they get to walk an actual red carpet. At the end of the red carpet is a table, and they get to place their child’s picture on the table after they’ve shared the story and light a candle in honor of their child.

And as they go back to their seat—since we can’t stay in the valley all night—then I bring them back up again.

Actually, one year James Shaw came, and he escorted the mothers in for me. That was really nice. And as he escorted them in, each mother—I crowned them and gave them a long-stem red rose to let them know how much we loved them.

Restoring Hope: The Final Day of the Retreat

Shirl
Then on Sunday morning, before we leave and go back, I usually have a guest speaker. Sometimes it’s me. I give an encouraging word. This year I spoke about storms—because tragedy is a storm—and how a storm can catch you off guard and bombard you and push you into a dark place that you don’t want to go.

But you can also wallow in your storm and stay there too long.

So I encourage them to come out and be healed and be delivered and be restored. And then we have a group prayer.

At the end, every year, I open the door for criticism—because we’re still learning.

• What did we do that you don’t think we should do?

• What did we do that you don’t think is effective?

• What did we do that you feel like we shouldn’t do again?

And the response thus far has been great. The mothers tell me they feel better. They leave restored.

One lady said she felt like we had pampered her so much, she felt like she had been to Oprah’s palace. And I was like, “Oh my God.”

One husband shared from the 2024 event: “I don’t know what you did. I don’t know what happened that weekend. But all I know is my wife left one way on Friday to attend your event, and on Sunday, when she came home, she was a totally different woman.”

He even carried me out to lunch. I said, “You don’t have to do that.” He said, “I want to do it. Because for years I’ve tried to cater to her. I’ve tried to support her. And nothing I did was equivalent to what you’ve done.”

And I said, “Oh my God.”

She even came back the second year and helped us serve and gave her testimony on her experience the year before.

Growing Impact: Reaching More Grieving Families Across the U.S.

Shirl
So we are experiencing growth—but not in numbers. We're experiencing growth in territory, because I don't know that growing too big in numbers and the mothers leaving and not getting what they came for is really effective. So right now, we really support about 10 to 15 mothers every year.

But in territory, the past two years we've experienced growth. We've reached out to the Kentucky area. We've had some mothers come from Kentucky to attend. But this year, 2025, we had a mother drive seven or eight hours from Ohio.

Brandi
Wow. And that's expenses paid?

Shirl
Yes. When she got there, I gave her the same love and the same treatment. She brings her gas receipts, and for instance, if she fills up her vehicle with $100, I write her a check from the foundation for $200. That pays for her gas there and her trip back home.

This year, I've talked to a mother from the Georgia-Alabama area who is interested in attending next year.

Brandi
Wow. Okay.

Shirl
So it’s bittersweet because it means what we’re doing is needed and it's effective. But it also means that families are still being broken, and people are still losing their babies.

Brandi
Right, right. There's so much there. It's amazing that you're doing this work and that it is so healing.

How to Apply for the Annual Grief Support Weekend

Brandi
So how do women or mothers find you? Or how do they get to take part in this weekend?

Shirl
Okay, so we do it every year in April, because that's the actual anniversary of the shooting. Someone usually submits the mother—or the mother can submit herself. I've even had husbands submit their wives because they knew she needed to come.

So they submit to our email. And I think you have a business card, so you'll probably put it on there. But it is:

hope4thefuture42218@gmail.com

The “4” is my daughter's Delta number, and 4/22/18 is the death anniversary.

They submit just a small line or two—or a paragraph. Like if someone was going to submit me, they would say:

“I would like to submit Shirl Baker to attend your event. She lost her daughter in the Waffle House shooting in 2018. She is experiencing grief, and I think your event would benefit her.”

And so I personally respond to every email. I print them off and then I carry them before my board members. I have about 10 board members on the foundation, and we read every email openly. There is not a dry eye.

After we read the emails, then we reach out to the mothers and we let them know if they've been chosen or not, because we have to stay within a certain number.

Brandi
Gotcha. What about the mothers who don't get chosen? Do you reach out to them maybe for a different event next—the following year? Or how does that work?

Shirl
Usually, if they’re interested, they’ll reach out to us. But sometimes, since they’ll have my phone number, they’ll already reach out to me and say, “Okay, I'm still interested.”

Supporting Grieving Fathers: Plans for a 2026 Event

Shirl
Also, 2026—what I'm praying for—is something for fathers.

This year, there were a couple of mothers that brought their husbands. The husband can come and they can stay in the wife's room, but they can't attend the entire event, because women do not open up well in front of men. But the portion that the husbands did attend…

Brandi
Yeah?

Shirl
Traumatizing. This year, the husbands were so broken, we had to escort them out of the room. And it pierced my heart.

And my board members were like, “Oh my God, we have to do something for the fathers.”

So I've talked to my pastor and another local pastor in my town, and I've got them on board with me.

My daughter was actually born on Father’s Day. So in 2026, if everything goes okay, we’re going to have a one-day event for the fathers. And I’m working on that right now.

Brandi
That’s amazing.

Shirl
I think it’s going to be called something like Release and Restore.

Because, you know, men are like, “I'm tough. I'm strong. I'm not going to cry.” And even though they're going through stuff, I think since they’re the head of the household, sometimes they feel like weeping and crying is not what a man is supposed to do.

But I personally feel like when you cry, you release the weight that you're carrying, and then you are strong enough to keep fighting every day the battle that lies before you.

Brandi
Yes. Okay.

Where to Learn More About the DeEbony Groves Foundation

Brandi
Well, everybody, I will put all of that information in the show notes so that you can go check it out. If you know of someone or you yourself would like to attend, you’ll have the information so that you can apply or email Shirl.

And then just for everyone’s reference, what is the website where they can find you and your work?

Shirl
We do have a website:
www.TheEbonyGrovesFoundation.org

We also have a Facebook page. It’s called:
The Ebony Groves Foundation (T-H-E spelled out).

We are working on some other networks right now. And it's a process, because I tell people—I’m kind of old school. So when it comes to high-tech stuff, I kind of veer away from it. But I’m coming forward and crossing some boundaries.

So being on here with you today was really a great accomplishment for me. Because I signed in and did everything by myself.

Brandi
That's awesome. Okay. Well, perfect. So again—go check the show notes, get all of that good information.

A Mother's Memory: How Shirl Remembers DeEbony

Brandi
And how do you remember DeEbony? And how would you like us to remember DeEbony?

Shirl
I have a favorite picture of us, and it was just a random picture. One Sunday—it was Easter Sunday after church—she was just taking selfies at church, and I ran up to do a photobomb. And I kissed her on the cheek, and she took the picture.

That one picture has spoken milestones in my life. And I often tell her—she had a million-dollar smile.

I mean, it's almost like when I'm at home, I think she's coming, because she was so spontaneous. She would just roll in from Belmont, even if she just stayed 30 minutes to an hour. And then she’d hop in a car and take off again.

But she was loving. She was energetic. She loved children. Oh, she loved children.

That is kind of one of my dilemmas that weighs me down, because right now I feel like my future to have grandchildren is not going to be flourished.

Some of her friends have had kids, and they’ve tried to allow me to be the godmother—and I'm honored. I am so honored, and I appreciate them. But I hear all my friends talk about their grandkids and how the grandkids are so special and how they make them feel. And my heart thrives for that.

Brandi
Gotcha. Yes. Well, thank you for sharing that.

Final Words of Encouragement: Hope for the Future

Brandi
Is there anything that I haven’t asked you that you think is important to share?

Shirl
Thank you. We’ve pretty much covered everything. But before I go, I just want to offer encouragement—because I think sometimes we can feel like, “Why always me? Why always me? Why am I going through this? Why is my family being attacked?”

In fact, no one—no one—is exempt from trials, tribulations, and struggles.

But I promise you that if you can fight through the pain, if you can fight and push through the agony of defeat, if you can keep getting up every day—even if you can’t do today what you did yesterday—the fact that you’re still fighting, you’re still striving, and you’re still trying…

At some point, you’ll see a light at the end of the tunnel. You can, and you will, find hope for your future.

And just know—life will not ever be the same. There’s always going to be that portion, that piece of the puzzle that’s missing. But my family and I often try to talk about, or you know, keep the dream alive and reminisce on the moments and the laughter. And when we leave, we do feel better than we did when we got together on that particular event or that particular day.

You’ve got to keep hope alive. You’ve got to keep the dream alive.

There is hope for your future. Beautiful, hope for the future.

Brandi
Well, Shirl, thank you so much for coming on the show and just for the work that you're doing in the world.

Shirl
Thank you for the opportunity to share. And I thank you for the bond that you and I have connected. I think our futures together—this is going to be really good. So I’m looking forward to that.

Brandi
Yes, me too.

Join the conversation!

Feel free to share your own experience and let me know if you have any questions in the comments.

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Hi, I’m the founder of Human Amplified. I’m Brandi Fleck, a recognized communications and interviewing expert, a writer, an artist, and a private practice, certified trauma-informed life coach and Reiki healer. No matter how you interact with me, I help you tell and change your story so you can feel more like yourself. So welcome!

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