Carrie Akre of Hammerbox and Goodness on Coming Up as a Musician in the 90s Seattle Grunge Era
Interview by Brandi Fleck
An inside look at coming up in the Seattle 90s Grunge scene and the impacts of fame then and now with Carrie Akre, who’s fronted the bands Hammerbox, Goodness, and the Rockfords with Pearl Jam’s Mike McCready and released solo albums.
While Carrie Akre still writes, sings, creates, and performs badass music in the Pacific Northwest, she chooses to spend her time now also as an intuitive life coach. She was introduced to me by the wonderful Susan Ruth, a fellow podcaster, connoisseur of the arts, and jack of all trades creative also originally hailing from the Pacific Northwest.
I started out this interview thinking we were going to focus primarily on intuition and using it to navigate life, but what came out of our discussion was pertinent to being seen and heard - a topic that’s paramount to us feeling valued as humans. Yet, intuition still comes up because it’s so crucial to following the path that’s meant for you. In Carrie’s case, it brought her up through a creative community vibe and helped her feel her way through each next step in making music her outlet.
What happens when something gets too big? What happens when there’s such high volume, nobody is special anymore? What’s sacred? We try our hand at answering these questions through the lens of learning how to let go of grunge when it was over and adapting to creating and music today in an internet world.
If anything is evident from how this discussion unfolded, it’s that going with the flow carries the greatest rewards. And, when it comes to human connection from being seen and heard, there definitely is a cut off point where if you go too far either way - the isolation of unpopularity versus the isolation of being famous - human connection can get lost.
Here’s what Carrie has to say about her own experience, what she’d say as a coach to someone who wants to be famous, memories of Pearl Jam rising to fame, and how intuition can be the best tool we can have in living happy lives.
A magical Path
Okay Carrie, what does being human mean to you?
Being human means being fallible, being like… being vulnerable. Being way more powerful than we all think as well.
I like that. Alright, well, welcome to Human Amplified. I’m really excited to be talking to you today and I’d love for you to just introduce yourself to our readers or watchers, whoever the audience may be right now - who you are, where you’re from or live, and what you do.
My name’s Carrie Akre and I live in the Northwest. I am a musician who came up in the grunge era and was in the bands Hammerbox and Goodness. I do solo stuff and I am also in a side band with members of Pearl Jam, so Mike McCready, and people who were also in Goodness sometimes. So sometimes we do that. I’m also a podcaster. I have a podcast called Between You and I. And I am an intuitive life coach as well.
This is the front cover of Carrie’s debut solo album, Home.
At the Beginning of the Grunge Era
That is so awesome. I have to ask you about coming up in the grunge scene because I was such a fan of grunge. Just, what was it like. What, I mean…
Well, I feel incredibly lucky to have gotten to be a part of that moment in time and that experience for a lot of reasons. Ya know, I started in bands in 1989 and at that or even prior to that, Seattle was really, not unknown, but it wasn’t a stop on the touring circuit, right. Like, it was a lumber town, it’s small, it’s in the corner of the Northwest and it wasn’t really being paid attention to or wasn't a hotspot, right. There’s always been music there. I mean, if you look historically, there’s always been incredible people coming out of the Northwest, but at that current time, it felt more like no man’s land. Like nobody was paying attention. At least people there were like nobody cares.
But what I think is great about that is when you live in a place like that and you don’t think anybody’s looking, or are they, there’s incredible freedom in that time because you’re like well what does it matter, I can do whatever I want. No one’s going to look. I don’t believe they’re going to be in the future, ya know. So there’s extreme creative freedom. There is an environment where you have to create your own fun. So that’s always also like a really good component of creating a circle of or a place of creativity.
There was a lot of DIY because there weren’t so many clubs at that time. And, I’d say throughout the northwest if you were into hardcore punk as well, that genre is really DIY right, having to find your own places to play. So there was a lot of like self created environments and creativity and do what you want kind of feeling in the world. So I feel lucky that I got to be part of music in that environment because there’s, like I said, freedom in that. And you’re less critical about what you’re creating or what it sounds like. You can have the opportunity to create something incredibly authentic.
You’re like all I know is what I have or what I think right now or what I’m interested in and so since there’s nothing else, let’s go make something out of that.
The Seattle scene also had a very solid support infrastructure there for music, like cheap practice spaces. We had the periodical The Rocket, which was completely devoted to music and it was everywhere. It was free.
We had great college stations with KCMU that was at the University of Washington. There was enough clubs, right. And we had the people who were compelled to do music. They had their own desires and fantasies about what it meant to play music, their love for music the people that they admired and Seattle’s always been kind of a creative hub for theater and other things as well right. Just arts and crafts and painting and everything. So, when you have a place that already just has all those things, it’s easy or it feels easier and it feels readily available. So even if you’ve never participated in any of it, you don’t have to throw a rock too far to start on your path - to be like ,well which way should I go. Well okay well somebody over here seems to like what I like, I’ll just start the conversation.
And Seattle’s small enough, at the time, where you meet one person, that person knows another person, and within a year you could be pretty expansibly connected to a lot of different scenes in that town at the time.
I call it a town instead of a city. I mean, it was a city, but you know, it felt like a town. You could navigate Seattle easily. It was not crowded. It was not crowded and it was affordable. Like I could have a apartment to myself for $300 and just have a job as a barista and be in a band and ya know bills would get paid. I could do a life like that and be a student, ya know what I mean? That was all very possible because things weren’t expensive. And I’m very grateful for that.
And again, you could navigate the city, any part of the city, easily. It wasn’t crowded. They had a good bus system. I don’t think I owned a car til I was in bands like in my 30s because we had to have a van, ya know.
Other than that I didn’t need a car. You could walk everywhere pretty much. And so, all that to say it was a very ripe situation for creativity. I think, I had never been in bands before. I’m primarily a singer. I had done choir. I grew up in the Tri-Cities, which is Eastern Washington state. It’s small. It’s conservative. So I left quickly when I was 18. Just as a creative person, but I’d never been in bands, but like I said, having a good infrastructure, I knew at least enough to go “well, I can look at least here or talk to this person. I can start somewhere without knowing anything.” And so I answered an ad in the back of The Rocket.
And what I feel great about synchronicity, is that I’m a huge synchronicity believer. When I said to myself, “Okay, I’m just going go try being in a band,” like that’s literally kind of all I said. I didn’t know anything, I was just like “well, let’s go be in a band.” The first ad that I answered was the ad that James and Dave of what would be Hammerbox had put in The Rocket and I answered it because, again, not knowing anything, I was like well which ad do you answer? So I was like, well, if there’s something I can relate to in this ad, I’ll call them. And they had influences listed like, ya know, REM, the Replacements… and then Annie Lennox, and I was like Ooh! Annie Lennox! I’m a fan of hers. I was very much a new wave baby in terms of what music I loved. So I was like “Oh there, okay I’ll call them.”
So that’s what I did and I got to know them and then later we added Harris as our guitar player. But again, ind of back to what the city was like then, it was starting to get transplants, transplant people from around the nation because I think people had started hearing oh “Seattle’s a great place to be,” funny enough. Like it hadn’t exploded yet. But Dave and James were from like Kentucky and Tennessee. And Harris was from Eugene, Oregon. But you know the city was so small, I met Harris because… this is going to sound so… there is a map out there by the way about who’s connected. I know it’s musicians only, but it should add all the people as well.
I at the time lived in a warehouse space in Pioneer Square, which is the old part of Seattle, above Roderick who was in Sky Cries Mary, which is a band that got well known, Nils Bernstein who ended up being the VP of PR for Sub Pop - he’s born and raised Seattle; so is Roderick - and their roommate Jeff Haywood. And Jeff introduced me to Harris. But all of those people, those people, ended up playing big parts in the Seattle scene. So you can kind of see like…
I roomed with Charles Peterson who took a lot of the huge photographs of Kurt Cobain and I was in the photo studio, so I met other people. At the … I was a photography student. And so it was really organic. We started. We met some friends: “hey can we do a show?” Again, a small town.
The first important show we did was important because we knew who was going to be there. And at the time it was like Nils and a bunch of people within a circle you knew, at least at the time, had influence - kind of like the cool kids in the scene. And I knew Nils, but he didn’t know I could sing. It was like finding out your friend can fly. He was like, “what you can sing? I didn’t know that.”
So we both had talked about - actually him and I had talked on my podcast about it - that that show, really the first important show we played in front of a larger scene - Nils was worried. He was like, “Oh my God she’s my friend, if their terrible that’s going to be awful, and I was worried, “Oh my God, if we’re terrible, we’re so done. If these people don’t like us, we’re so done.”
Hammerbox - When 3 is 2 Live
Yeah.
Like if these people don’t like us we’re done, which is so junior high.
Well…
Yeah, but true, I mean it was true. Luckily, Nils was like, “the minute you started playing, he was like oh my God.” He was like, “Thank God. Thank God it was amazing.”
And then from there we did kind of the cycle that lots of people were doing. You just started playing shows. When you’re new, you’re just looking for any place to play a show. And then as you build an audience, you are getting into the better places, better slots - days and times to play a show, like weekends. You’re then able, when you get even a little bit bigger, to like design the bill how you want. So we would combine with other bands to build even bigger audiences, with that intent.
That’s cool.
And then you’re starting to get opportunities to do bigger shows, like the End Fest we played that was 107.7’s huge festival show or play the university or anywhere there was really going to be 1,000 and up people, right. Everyone started to kind of notice where those things were and what those opportunities were.
So that’s kind of like the trajectory of growth. And then it became apparent, like Sub Pop came into fruition and they started signing. They have a very particular brand, like style of band, like Mud Honey, Fast Backs, Heather Doobey. Initial bands that were all on - I can’t remember if Gas Huffer was on there, but anyways - an initial kind of sound that they signed. So lots of people were starting to put things out on Sub Pop. CZ Records was sort of the, I mean for lack of a better word, was like the antithesis of that. I mean Daniel had started CZ because he was aware of all the music going on so a whole noter faction was on CZ like Built to Spill, Hammerbox, not Built to Spill, Tree People, The Gits, I think Seven Year Bitch put something out. Ya know like there was a whole nother sector putting of music that was putting their music out on CZ records.
Okay.
And we all as young people were all in our twenties, kind of start to understand how you build something as a band. Ya know, you play, you practice, you play your first shows, you put out your own, at the time, cassette or single, right, like a vinyl single, like that would be the next step. Maybe you’d have merch. Then an indie label gets interested. You put something out on them. So our first Hammerbox record came out on them.
And right about then in Seattle, there’s that… it was like that’s when the major industry started - you could feel was starting to pay attention. Like Sound Garden got signed, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, like all these bands all of a sudden were like “Oh, we’re getting noticed, these people are coming, this thing is happening.” I mean we all kind of knew. We were all a little bit like Whoa, what’s happenign> Oh this is happening, Okay.
I really believe like most everybody I knew in that scenes were incredibly smart, right. They were very much - they loved to have the sort of like jaded, I’m a loser, I don’t care kind of feel to them, but nobody was stupid. There’s a real character style in Seattle that’s really snarky, kind of like, ya know, they wouldn’t say so, but a lot of those people made up the outcasts and unwanted people, geeky, never popular and all of a sudden they’re in these power positions as as a musician.
That was very much a core group of - those people were a lot of that. Not dumb at all. I mean usually I find when you’re the underdog, you’ve had to think a lot more in order to navigate and survive.
Absolutely, yeah.
So if you for some reason get popular, you have so much more underdog knowledge that I feel like makes you a little wiser because you’ve been on the losing end before.
Yeah, yeah.
Right? And now you’re sort of like… it helps you not just… in some ways, well, sometimes, you automatically don’t trust, right, yeah, like “okay, yeah I’m popular, but I remember still when you were awful, right.”
For sure, for sure.
So there’s some of that. There’s also some anger, there’s snarkiness, ya know. In a punk rock kind of indie world, yeah, there’s definitely sort of like the eff you, I remember. it’s going to come out in my music, it’s what I talk about, it’s there.
And then there’s also the extreme weirdness of - especially like with Pearl Jam, Nirvana, these guys - those guys were seriously not the popular kids. Now you’ve got the bro who used to beat you up in the hall way who now dude loves you and that’s a real trip.
Yeah, I bet that would cause some like…
Like how do you reconcile that.
What creates great emotional music
Exactly. Cognitive dissonance going on and I love how you said underdog knowledge. I think that whole Seattle persona is why I fell in love with the grunge scene when I was younger anyways. I mean, I totally related and was like “wow this is amazing.”
Right? Really angry. Really dirgy. And just expressing not only the twenties angst, but bitter angst, like pain. I feel like the twenties are where you’re trying on a lot of hats. You say you know who you are but you’re just a baby still, right.
Like, you haven’t adventured into all the corners that are you, ya know. It’s very different from being 20…like a 50 is very different in terms of knowledge than a 20 year old. I don’t mean intelligence, I mean time logged, experiences that provide wisdom.
Sure.
Things you didn’t know then that you know now that shape you. So in your twenties you’re just literally experiencing things, trying things, doing things, you’re saying this is your opinion and it’s correct, you know what I mean? Like, it’s like I’m right or being righteous or things like that. But that’s a part of the emotionality of that time and that’s what creates great emotional music, I think. So yeah, there was a lot of that.
And ya know when you say what was it like, what I love to tell people that I wish could’ve been there - I feel so grateful because it was like all of my friends played music. Every weekend we played shows together. I could walk to their house. It was just a pleasure to be a part of. I could afford to liven a beautiful city and be surrounded by music and succeed in terms of popularity of a band at least within that area, within the Northwest. That could be all the way down to Portland, Canada, a bit into Idaho. And how exciting to get to be a part of that. I mean, you could play a show on a Monday and it was packed. I tell people a lot of the time what was magical about that moment was I would say the majority of the populace in the Northwest area, and that includes people working in Microsoft, families, any kind of person was utilizing music as their outlet whether they were playing it, going to see it, buying it, traveling to shows. I mean it was the thing that you did.
So like I said you could play a show on a Monday and it would be packed. People, most all people, knew this thing is going on so I’m going to go check out shows. Going to shows, ya know - I’m gonna go see so and so, I’m just gonna go see something new. I’m just going to go on a Monday because I know this club usually books great people. People would take the chance on new music and just, “yeah I’ll go to the Crocodile Cafe cuz I know they tend to book great things.” Have no idea who these people are, but I’m goin.”
Yeah.
So there’s that as well. So I really found that a magical time to be a part of, especially as a band member getting to be in a band that was locally successful. Like what an experience. It’s totally crazy.
It’s awesome.
And, it’s like anyone who grew up in a town that just had like a great time in your life. Like I had a great circle of friends. We lived close by. Things were easy. Anybody who maybe goes to a town and a college that they love maybe has a similar feeling of a moment where it was an easy, fun existence.
Things started, I would say… for a while (laughs) ya know, nothing lasts forever.
And not only did things that would happen in life happen, but that whole era of time - everybody knew that would not be forever, nothing is - had it’s trajectory and then it’s morph.
I would say morph because there's the whole grunge era where people go oh Sub Pop, ya know, Nirvana, Sound Garden, Mud Honey, Pearl Jam, and then the indie bands. All that stuff, like the apex of it all, even Riot Girl, which is very Olympia based more than I would say Seattle. There’s a real apex of like things happening, like just on fire. And then when it starts to go out into the mainstream and gets appropriated, touted, explained by people who were never there, ya know, especially people back in Seattle being very jaded going “what the?”
When you start see models on the runway with flannel, everyone’s just like disgusted. We all knew, were’e like “Oh, it’s gotten to that level. Now the whole populace is like eating the carcass and taking it and utilizing it for their own and talking about it. I think everybody kind of knew this is the beginning of the end.
It’s no longer just ours. It’s not special. It’s being consumed. It’s gotten too big.
The Beginning of the End for Grunge’s Moment
I love that you brought that up. I mean that’s a real thing, when something gets too big, it loses it’s specialness and then it’s like well now what. Now what do we do?
Yeah, well that can be a really depressing time and a lot of disillusionment, right? Like it’s sad because you knew how great its was. You’re sad because you know it can’t help but change. You don’t really want that, but it’s going to anyway and you don’t know what the aftermath is going to look like. I mean, you have to be ready to morph in whatever direction or keep trucking on your timeline in life and not get stuck anywhere or so stuck or regretful that you’re then kind of stuck in time. That never works out for anybody.
Yeah.
Like I’m not pining for grunge, you know what I mean. I didn’t go, “Oooh, I can never let it end.”
But what I think is amazing is that like if you look at, so my second band was Goodness and we were signed to Atlantic Records.
Goodness - Superwise
Hammerbox ended up getting signed to A&M records and during that time toured the states, toured globally and then Goodness did the same. And this is towards kind of the end of it, towards the end, I’d say 2000, the real real end, really getting to the end. But there were still amazing bands coming out of there. Not hardcore like “the grunge” era bands, but like Long Winters, Harvey Danger, Mock 2, Death Cab for Cutie, you know what I mean. This isn’t grunge era, but these bands were coming up during that time an those were big bands that kind of had nothing to do with grunge, but came out of the same area so I find that amazing.
Like a second bloom.
Yeah.
It’s always amazing to me. Who else? There was plenty. And Seattle always has that going on. If you try and compare it to like grunge, people would say like oh it’s over. I’m like oh no it’s never been over here. I mean, it continues to evolve and have new things. Seattle’s not the same. It is not the same city. It’s a whole new round of generation of people there now. But there’s still a vibrant music scene. It’s also - think about this - my whole time in grunge, even into Goodness, was pre-internet.
Right, right.
I mean, the life before internet is completely different. I often say like I am so grateful that I got to do music pre-internet.
Yeah.
It’s just a whole other world now. It’s a crowded, clogged world now. Ya know, God bless everybody getting to have access, but now everyone has access. It’s very hard to be special.
When we were starting this conversation I thought we were going to talk a lot about intuition, and I still hope to get there…
We’ll get there (laughs).
Being Special in a High Volume Society
But I do have another question for you based on what you just said. This idea of, ya know, you said it’s a crowded, clogged world now. It’s hard to be special. I feel like that has come in a lot of different industries, in a lot of different circles, and it’s almost like if it’s so hard to be special, do we still need to be special and what is that, maybe what are your thoughts on that?
I don’t know that I have the whole answer to this, but I have thoughts.
Sure, sure.
Also remember that I’m 54. I wonder for someone who’s 20 right now who’s grown up in it, they’ve grown up in it, right? I would be fascinated to talk to somebody who says well this is all I know. So I’m sure they may not even feel bad, right, because this is the terrain they grew up in. So for someone that age - so I bring up age for a reason - for someone who’s grown up with it, they already know they were born into this terrain, so they will navigate it because this is what they know. I have known another terrain, so I might have a lot more pain and regret or knowledge - I’ve seen a world that’s different which maybe I liked better. So I have to struggle a little bit more with getting content within this new world, right.
I’ve lived in a world that had more space for me or other people, not as many bands so you could pay attention or see them. I’m not saying it’s ever been easy for bands - that’s not what I’ms saying at all. So for me because I know a different time and place and way, I’m comparing and I’m probably having to reconcile, that’s what I mean, reconcile emotions. Think emotions like sadness or regret or grief over what it’s not anymore. Fear and deep sadness around, hopelessness around, how am I - should I even?
That’s my reaction to high volume now. Instantly feeling lost. Not knowing or even desiring to play the game like it might be played now. Like it can feel overwhelming. It can feel futile. I guess if your goal is… let’s just say with music… if my goal is I want to get known, I want to put out a record, I want to get popular, it used to be oh get signed, but it’s not the same world anymore.
Yeah.
People do get signed to labels, but it’s not in the same way at all. How do I succeed in the music world? What are all the ways today with how you succeed - succeed being the word - in this world? Is it I gotta get a YouTube channel and put out videos? Is that how I get - which is true right - if I do music and I do videos with it and over and over and I get millions of followers, that’s how I get noticed now, or Instagram, or TikTok. These are the channels and used and the places people might look for me or see me these days. Not necessarily slogging it out in a small club or in a van going around the country. That used to be my tool, right. That is not true anymore. That’s not as effective anymore or what’s being used.
You Might Also Like: My Improvised Life
So somebody born into it might be like well yeah, here’s what we got. But somebody my age might be like man, this is a bummer.
I’m not someone who maybe even wa… this is what I’m trying to figure out myself.
Because I’ve had it different, makes me bummed that oh now I gotta go do this thing, and I don't know that I really want to go do this thing, like throw myself out there on YouTube every week and I gotta do it everyday, or Instagram, and you mean I gotta do this everyday? I gotta go put myself in front of people like this everyday? That’s not something I even like.
So it’s different. Like I could be in a club every weekend. I could maybe do videos and I’m like I’m okay with that. But now I gotta get up in front of I don’t know who everyday and have something to spew everyday even if it’s - and maybe it’s sound bites, like I ever cared about sound bites. So there’s a whole bunch of stuff I just may not be interested in doing because I don’t find it interesting. But it is…
It’s the way.
…the game of the day, ya know.
So if a person’s specialness or their likability is measured in likes and views and all of these internet measurements - I’m going to bridge here to your coaching experience - how do you coach someone through self esteem and confidence knowing that that is what is driving some people’s self worth?
Well this is where intuition comes in for me so…
Okay.
Even in the past, I would say to someone: know who you are, know your authentic self, honor yourself, and make decisions from there, even if it was 1989. Do what you want to do, honor yourself, have faith, have courage, because throughout anytime there’s people who want to pooh pooh ya, tell you you’re an idiot, say no, or you're a failure or you’re no good. That was there always before and its here now, just at high volume, anonymously, irresponsibly, out on the internet - that’s another thing I hate. But if there was someone who was at any age right now saying hey I want to start doing this, when the volume gets too big, I always tell people okay you’re overwhelmed, count the things you do know and start there.
First build your small world that you do have control over. Like yourself. Right? Like, know thyself. Start there. Know thyself. And what I mean by that, is like know what you like, know what you love, really hardcore get that in your system like, “No, I know I like red. I like ice cream.” And honor that. Build a solid, authentic platform - knowledge about yourself. And then from there - and you need that. I can’t emphasize that enough. You need this first no matter what you’re doing because if you go out into this world without that, you’re fuel tank is going to run out. You’re not going to be able to sustain it. You’ll probably get depressed, overwhelmed, lost, and everything right, because you haven’t built his tiny house first. Ya know? I can endure a lot more if I’m very clear about who I am, what I like, and what I want to do.
The second thing I tell people is 100% give up on control (laughs), ya know? Like, believe it or not the strongest tool you have is the strength of your daydreaming, the love of your visions, making sure you stay loyal to what you actually like, keep dreaming about it, keep seeing it, ya know, keep going yes I want that. And now this is where I'm a much bigger believer in magic and the Universe. I’m like those things will show up. If you’re clear about you, you will get to do the things you want. So if you’re clear about I want to be a huge YouTube star, I’m like great, you know that. If you know that you will go do whatever work it takes to go get huge. Ya know? If it’s everyday, everyday creating content, getting on there - you won’t mind because that is actually what you really want.
But I think a lot of people go out there and go I want to be huge and that is a super hollow statement. I’m like really, do you know what that entails? And they haven’t thought anything about that.
It’s like our sick desire for fame. I’m like do you know what that entails? Have you thought about that?
Because I had to do that with music. There was a time in my life where I - you know, you would just have that simple thought like, “oh I want to be huge.” Or, “Oh I want to succeed in the music industry. I want to be a success” - just that simple statement.
But having logged a couple decades in the music industry and that career, I know way more what that actually entails.
Watch the Full Interview
If you’d rather watch the complete, unedited video of Carrie Akre and Brandi Fleck hanging out talking all things 90s Seattle grunge, what it’s like being famous, and how intuition and creativity are connected, here it is in all it’s fun glory.
What Happens When You Become Famous
What does that entail? Like what happens when fame happens?
Well there’s two sides, let’s see. When you decide you want to do that career pre-fame, like you haven’t gotten fame yet, right, working toward success in that industry leads you to simple things like:
You’ve got to write the music, you’ve got to decide what kind of music - you’ve got to make the art, right. Then you’ve got to figure out putting that art out there in whatever fashion - be that playing shows or be that on YouTube or Instagram or Instagram live or whatever - then it’s putting out there and then it’s doing it over and over again. Then, now say you do get - now there’s a level of success right. Say someone does pay attention and says we’d like to release your music on a label or whatever. That new level in your career brings things - working with a label, finding a contract… in today’s thing, when someone says they want to sign you, they may tell you some things that you think are the truth, but they’re telling you things to get you signed. That doesn’t guarantee they will ever take good care of you. That’s always on you. That’s something I learned you know what I mean. Which means, you need new knowledge, you need a good team. You need a lawyer. You need potentially a good manager - like one you trust. One who’s not only smart, understand the industry, probably has relationships (that’s bonus because it’s a very relational industry, right), you need your protective team.
Because for lack - I know this is going to sound really harsh, this wordage, this is probably offensive, I don’t know.
But I find the music industry offensive, so (laughs). I mean, I really believe that industry will r@pe the sh!t out of you. It will. It doesn’t care. That machine doesn’t care.
I mean there are music people who are true lovers of music and love their artists and work hard, but here are also volumes of people who are not bright, don’t care, want to be the person who gets credit for discovering the new thing and go up in their career. Like the music industry, in the time I’ve been in it, I was like it’s one of the few industries where people fail upwards. And I have met people who have done and said things that were like, how are you even human. Or you obviously don’t have a conscience. That industry and that world and that game can breed people like that. And as a woman, don’t get me started to the things that can happen to you in that industry.
Yeah, yeah.
So these are the knowledge pieces as you go along. So when someone says to me, “I want o be famous,” I’m like there’s so much within that that you’re not acknowledging from what I gather and maybe you just don’t know. And it’s hard to want to tell someone like - I mean it’s a special person tat you can say go educate yourself. Who’s the person who can go educate themselves and not just get so bummed out that they don’t bother at all?
Even with all those things, I wouldn’t tell somebody to not go make art or strive for success. I would just say be pre-prepared. Make yourself the most loving, nurturing situation you can given what you know now, right? Pre-prepare. And then work your ass off.
After fame happens, based on your knowledge of coming up, what does that do to the art and the creative process? Does a bit of the authenticity get destroyed, or does what’s authentic just change based on that person’s new position?
Well I think it depends on what kind of art you’re making. If you’re making pop music, there’s a whole formulated way of making pop music that sells. And I’m not dissing that. I’m just saying to write hits, people work hard and they work with people and they formulate hit songs, right? And those can be personal. Those can definitely be personal. People put their personal lives into those, like Adele or Taylor Swift, ya know, anybody.
You can’t help - well, not everybody - but a lot of people still put their personal experiences, they express their personal experiences or whatever they want to express through pop music, formulated pop music. You can do that.
Then there’s very much single female singers like Whitney Houston or…who have songs written for them, and that’s fine. I mean again, I’m not… but it is that. Ones that match their voice, ones that they like - they get to decide or a manager does. There’s that kind of artist.
There might be a more indie artist who’s like I know that the kinder style of music I make isn’t going to be the kind that sells millions of records unless I get crazy lucky. So luck is a big part of it, but that’s what I write, and I’m not interested in morphing to sell a ton of records. Because the business wants to sell a lot of records. So they may even sign you if you’re super indie. And you think, “Oh wow, I’ve found a home that loves my indie music.” Well, they’re there to sell records, so don’t think they won’t put their hands on your indie music or try and morph it or make you write with someone else, tell you you’re no good, and then drop you.
If you’re a logical person, you might go why did you even sign me? I’m like because that industry has - had, I don’t know if it really does now - had the time and money to experiment on you and with people like you. It’s a crap shoot sometimes. It’s luck.
Let’s just sign a whole bunch of grunge bands and see what sticks to the wall.
Yeah.
But as an artist, can you imagine being an artist that’s like, “I’m a part of a throw it to the wall?” Which means they will throw you away just as quickly without a heartfelt - there’s no heart in that. There’s no kindness. And that can be really shocking to a person, not just an artist, but any human being. You don’t see that coming and you can’t believe it sometimes. Plus any of the other awful things people do - you’re like is this really happening. Oh wow, and they’re getting away with it. Really terrible things. Terrible things. That’s hard to struggle with.
So, the other things that happen with fame - say you make it through, you do your thing, you’re famous, you know there’s all kinds of things that come with fame.
Justine Bateman wrote a book a year or so ago called Fame and she shares the experience of her rise and quote unquote fall from fame and all the parts of her experience. And it’s other things people don’t think about. Like, when you become popular in a large volume of people like you, you become a thing. You become public property. You kind of become a little less human and some people feel like they have, or don’t even think about, having access to you.
For instance, you become huge and people walk up to you and stand next to you and take your picture, but have never said hello or asked if that's okay. You’re a piece of public property.
Yeah, like you’re a statue just waiting for…
Yeah, and you as a person might go like what, why would that person… I’m like, well, not all human beings are polite, great, or smart, I dunno, you know what I mean. Those things can start happening to you. Stalkers can start happening. Our world is made up a huge variety of kinds of human beings - healthy to very unhealthy, right - and when you become public, you are public to the whole variety. And you’ve got to think about those things. So there’s huge people who…
I remember watching the trajectory of Pearl Jam and those guys and the things that they experienced as famous people and the things they had to put in place now to not only protect their own lives.
They had to just put things in place because as famous people, certain things could or were happening to them. Crazy things. Like, think about if you’re someone who then has a family, you’ve got to now, I hate to say it, figure out how you and your family want to live.
Where would be the best place to live? Where is it kind of the most vulnerable to live? If you go live in a huge city and you don’t put any security in place, in a high volume city full of a wide variety of people, it just takes one crazy to want to stalk you in your house and come into your home.
So there’s just this whole world of how you’re treated, how you’re perceived that I don’t think people - and you know you read so many articles and books of famous people who had quick trajectories and they all say no one prepares you for what it feels like. No one prepares you for what it feels like. No one prepares you for how the people you thought were closer start treating you. Like, no one prepares you for how you’re treated in everything. It can be fatal, ya know, like if you don’t pre-think…
So as a coach, you can see there are huge things I pre-tell or talk with people about. I would, if that was the question. And again, not to bum them out, but I’m like, gear up and learn how to preserve your excitement and love for what you do. But you are choosing an industry - you know, you’d have a particular conversation with an architect or a doctor, right. Let’s say you want to go into emergency medicine.
Yeah.
Wouldn’t you not only want to know how to perform that medicine and healing, but talk to them about the environment they’re about to go work in.
Absolutely.
And what that might do to them, right. Same thing with music… (laughs) terrible…music or art, same thing. Let’s think about the arena you want to enter into and what all that entails.
Carrie Akre is still a musician, but focuses more on intuitive life coaching now.
What’s the Need Behind the Desire to Be Seen and Heard
Yeah, yeah. And so, as a podcaster and coming up in this information age where there are a lot of influencers and everyday people who just hit fame overnight, people go viral, all of these things, it seems like there is this desperate need in humanity to be seen and heard. But I think there’s different degrees of it. Like, some of it is yes, I want to be seen and heard in this high volume grander scale. In other ways, people just want to be seen and heard in their social circles or in their home and maybe they’re not even listening to themselves. So, when I say the phrase being seen and heard, what comes up for you there?
I think for the person who’s not thinking deeply, it’s like I just want you to see me and like me. You know what I mean? Maybe that’s the depth of which they’re thinking. Seeing me and liking me means I’m of value or that I’m good or succeeded - all the things that help our self esteem - could help our self esteem.
But I think being seen and heard - heard is the key one for me. Like, you could see me but never hear me but I don’t like that. But if I have something to contribute to the world, it is my wish to want someone to hear it, consume it. And my bigger wish is oh that it’s something that helps you - these are the things I want - it’s something that helps you or I get to commune with you and then we effect each others lives in a good way. That is the pleasure moment, the communing. Getting to do that on a… with more people, more interesting people is what I’m interested in. So being seen and heard is like…if I got to be seen and heard on a larger scale and it was a successful outcome, like people what I said helped them or they liked it or things like that, then what could happen is then I get, if I’m at a higher level, I might get access to other people that I’m very interested in. Ya know, I might have access to Oprah. Oprah, at a certain level, Oprah might see you and you get to go talk to her. The exchange is what I’m interested in, not the oh I got so… I’m huge.
Let’s go back to music. If you’re successful, you’re at a level where other people at that level, you get to collaborate with them as opposed to like no one’s heard of you and it’s really hard to get through somebody’s manager. So the thing I like out of being seen and heard and maybe successful is that I might get to then go have access to people that I’m interested in. For me that means to converse, to commune, to ask them questions, I’m very curious to get a picture, to see what they’re about and what is happening on a grand scale in the world. Not because I need attention. I’m just curious and fascinated. And I like to be with wisdom people.
But I would say the same about you, like having this conversation. This is the pleasure moment.
Yeah. It’s super fun!
Like I don’t know you and you don’t know me, but this is the best. I love this. This is my like, this is my successful thing - getting to talk to more and more people out there. This is what makes me happy. That’s success to me. Like I’m getting to do what I like to do. Winning! Ya know, I’m good.
What Happens When Your Culture Says Fame Defines Success
Yeah, and so I want to take this a little further down to that same theme of acceptance and wanting to be liked and your value coming from not just likes but maybe being accepted by others. What would you say to people, I guess as a coach, what would you say to people who have a hard time listening to their own intuition and like accepting themselves and hearing themselves and does needing (this is sort of two parts) and does needing to be heard and accepted externally mean that you’re not necessarily accepting yourself internally, if that makes sense?
It’s vastly different, ya know what I mean? Someone who knows themselves, like truly knows themselves, and has practiced and garnered knowledge about themselves for reasons, right, that that person is understands why it’s important to know yourself and what you like in order to navigate towards a healthy life. Like that person who knows how to do that also knows when you know yourself and you are good to yourself, right, like you have self love, self knowledge, you’re a well equipped person to then navigate through your life as is best for you, right.
That’s the goal. That’s a healthy person. That’s the goal I would give people. Because isn’t happiness the goal really? Contentment? Happiness? And joy? So everyone can go fish around with these other goals and then ultimately never… you could garner a lot of money or attention and never be happy... That’s kind of like the joke’s on you, because the real goal is contentment and happiness and joy. Ya know, not to be pollyanna - it’s not like you’re happy everyday, but self awareness and self understanding with a loving compassionate tinge or arm around that is someone who’s gonna be able to navigate life and make decisions toward things they know they like because they’ve taken the time to understand themselves and know what those things are. They’re going to be someone who knows how to put up a boundary. They’re going to be able to say that’s not okay with me. They’re going to be able to communicate. So all of this means you can navigate really well and happily in your life, and that’s the point of life. When someone isn’t grounded enough or mature enough - I’m not even sure what the word is - to know that that’s what’s important, I would believe that that person’s going to flail a lot more and experience loneliness, disconnect, discontent, depression, futility, pain. Because they’re like oh I thought if I went out here and got famous, which in our culture is as measure of success, I think erroneously, why am I not happy? I mean, that’s the lost person. And our culture pushes - really, what do I want to say, who’s the word? like - really holds fame and fortune up as the pinnacle, the thing to strive for.
Yeah.
It’s like ooooh, a group of people really, a culture telling you that to become special is the thing to do, as a great thing to do, is really dangerous to me because special can also mean very alone. Have you ever watched Nina Simone, the Nina Simone documentary Where Have You Gone, ooh, go see…
I haven’t seen it.
Go see it. She says it in there. She was like when she was young, she was a concert trained pianist, right? And everyone was like oh wow that’s so special, that’s amazing. So you hear that phrase first, “oh wow that’s amazing.” And we all go into this world of wow, I would want that. But you know what that got her? It got her isolation. Kids didn’t play with her. The only time she got invited to be with children her own age is when she was asked to do the special things that she did. Not to be herself and just hang out and play ball. So can you imagine no one interacts with me unless I’m doing my special thing? That’s a lonely place. That’s not cool special.
So these are like all these worlds I like to break down and go do you understand what that really means? To be famous or special or outstanding. I’m like, people change around you. And I, on a small scale, have felt that.
When you go do something that your culture says is fantastical, you become very special, but you also are, like if this is me, you also become this other thing, and look how separate I am from everyone now. I’m over here. Not that I asked for it. But now I am looked at differently and I have to be able to handle that. I’m also alone. People make assumptions about me. Like I am very alone over here in my special spot, ya know.
Yeah, yeah.
I’m not even sure I answered your question. This is where…the intuition thing though. My big teachings are all about practices to get to the deep authentic self knowledge place, and that means a lot of things. That means slowing down, it means getting quiet, it means understanding what your intuition is and following it. Understanding that it’s the most important tool in your tool box. Because your gut may tell you something that is inexplicable to other people.
Like, I can’t tell you why, but I don’t like that person. Well what do you mean, she’s so nice? And I’m like, mmmmm. Ya know, its hard. But if you’re good with your intuition, best tool in your tool box because it’s you talking to you. Its’ your inner self talking to you. So I teach intuition as the tool.
Okay.
You can call it other things like your gut, ya know, your gut feeling. I think sometimes when people hear intuition they thing oooh, it’s getting woo woo and I’m like no, call it your gut, call it whatever feeling, ya know.
The Intuition and Creativity Connection
Yeah. So I have one more question for you, and I would love to know how your creativity connects to your intuition, or how your intuition connects to your creativity, either way.
Well, over the years, I have formed a really clear practice of how I write. So I’m an emotional writer. I know that about myself. I have done it enough times to know that I can do it. I’ve had to learn how to tell myself how I want to do it or how often. So I’ve had to get that knowledge. And then, as far as writing or intuition, I also practice knowing how to get out of the way. When I write, I will be emotionally compelled to do so. I as a person happen to be, I think, very good with melody. It comes to me naturally. Rhythm. You give me a drummer I can write all day. I’m not someone who writes everyday. I don’t prefer to. But when I do, I have done it enough time where it will come to me, things will start flowing, and I get out of the way. And I would say that’s where intuition comes, or the knowing, you know what I mean.
That’s why I call myself an intuitive life coach, because when I’m working with people, there will just be knowing of potentially what is going on with that person and it helps me pose the right question. Surprising questions. I’ve had so many clients who’ve been like oh my God, how’d you know that? Well I’m like, that’s intuition as well. It brings a knowing to you and you can’t explain it a lot of the time. Same with creativity. All these words flew out of my mouth, I don’t know why ya know. It came out like in two seconds. It doesn’t happen all the time, but. I think we have a lot more inside of us. I mean you hear that a lot. There’s a lot out there that says we are capable of so much more. We have so many more magical tools or capabilities that we’re taught, most of the time. And that’s how I prefer to see the world also - as a very magical, mystical, amazing, fun place.
Alright. Well… this is all really awesome. And I just let it flow too and I was sort of surprised at where the conversation went but I love it and I want to let our audience know that you’ll be coming back for a follow up and we’ll do a part 2 on the podcast, and maybe we can dive more into the mystical and your intuitive coaching there… thanks so much for coming on Human Amplified!
Oh my god, it’s been a absolute pleasure. I can’t wait to talk to you again. It really has been fun. This is it. This is the cool thing! Thank you!
Bye!
Connect with Carrie
CREDITS: PHOTOS PROVIDED BY CARRIE AKRE AND UNSPLASH. GRAPHICS AND VIDEO BY BRANDI FLECK.
About the Interviewer
Brandi Fleck is a writer, artist, and a recognized communications and interviewing expert. She is also an avid researcher of human nature and founder of Human Amplified, where she helps people embrace being their true selves so they can expand more fully into their own humanity without fear of being seen and heard. Brandi hosts the top-rated Human Amplified podcast (formerly the On Being Human podcast). READ MORE